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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/15/2015 10:47 AM, Scott Plante
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1617522595.2183.1442328444375.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com"
type="cite">
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<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Or when "9/11 Truthers" would argue
that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt the steel
girders in the towers, I'd ask, "but what about those tanks
of chemicals they use to make the chemtrails? Who knows how
hot that stuff burns?"</span></font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I wondered how the false
flag commandos got the building to burn so well with the jet
fuel. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Didn't Halliburton get
the contract for waste disposal? It all ties together now.<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1617522595.2183.1442328444375.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000">
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory</a></font><br>
<br>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: normal;
font-style: normal; text-decoration: none;"><b>From: </b>"Charles
Shapiro" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com"><hooterpincher@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><ale@ale.org></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, September 15, 2015 9:31:15 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] -
OT MS vs Apple vs Linux/UNIX<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I chalk it all up to the Moon Landing Conspiracy. The
moon landings were all faked, in a studio ON THE MOON.<br>
<br>
</div>
-- CHS<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 4:58 PM,
Damon L. Chesser <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:damon@damtek.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:damon@damtek.com">damon@damtek.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 09/12/2015 04:21 PM, Steve Litt wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:17:46 +0300<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:damon@damtek.com" target="_blank">damon@damtek.com</a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
Ahhh. No<br>
It is in response to the long thread and the
strong opinions in the<br>
thread and in fact was not directed at you or
anybody else<br>
specifically. And IAW Godwin's law, I have
now lost the debate.<br>
</blockquote>
Yes, you have. Godwin's law doesn't work
anymore, and it was always in<br>
bad taste.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
Seriously, it was merely meant in jest. Don't
like systemd, don't use<br>
it. Like systemd, use it.<br>
</blockquote>
The preceding two sentences encapsulate the
entire issue.<br>
<br>
If systemd were just another modular,
replaceable init, everyone you<br>
hear cursing it would be dancing in the streets.
And truth be told, a<br>
lot of us might then choose to use systemd in
certain use cases.<br>
<br>
The problem is, systemd has been engineered from
the ground up to<br>
exchange dependencies with every part of the
Linux system. The<br>
motivations for doing this are up for debate,
but most folks who have<br>
every alt-initted a system will vouch for this:
Once you're using a<br>
distro that has incorporated systemd as PID1,
replacing systemd or any<br>
part of it is very, very difficult.<br>
<br>
For instance, if you currently have sysvinit,
OpenRC, runit, s6 or<br>
Epoch, switching to runit, s6 or Epoch involves
installing the new<br>
init, making a new run script (runit or s6) or
config section (Epoch)<br>
for each *real* process (not the tens of
no-reason processes and<br>
one-shots run by systemd). Not trivial, but not
difficult for a Linux<br>
knowledgeable person. You also have to make a
shutdown script, and you<br>
can find a lot of boilerplate for that on the
Internet. It's also<br>
possible that you'll need to make minor
alterations to your initramfs,<br>
but that's actually doubtful.<br>
<br>
Same thing with a systemd computer: Replace it
with runit, s6 or Epoch.<br>
Now you need to find a udev equivalent, compile
it, get it working. Or<br>
else you need to do a lot of workarounds with
systemd's udev. You need<br>
to take dracut, and use it to create an
initramfs that does *nothing<br>
but* mount the root partition, and then hand
control to the on-disk<br>
init. As you do this, contemplate the trouble
you'll be in if the<br>
systemd industry ever conquers dracut, the way
it conquered udev. If<br>
so, you'll be back to hand-creating initramfs.
And of course you'll<br>
need to do all the same things I mentioned when
describing alt-initting<br>
a non-systemd box.<br>
<br>
Consider that if sysvinit had been as
monolithically entangled with the<br>
user portion of the OS (and the kernel if they
get their way with<br>
kdbus) as systemd is, Red Hat would have had to
spend triple what they<br>
did to create a replacement init. But like all
the other inits except<br>
systemd, sysvinit is an encapsulated PID1 plus
service manager, so it<br>
was easy to replace. The systemd industry
climbed the ladder of<br>
modularity, and then pulled the ladder up after
them.<br>
<br>
I understand you're probably init agnostic, and
that's fine. But you<br>
need to be thankful for the people working hard
to provide alternatives<br>
to the Redhat funded juggernaut, because if
Redhat ever succeeds in<br>
eliminating alternatives to systemd, they'll
have a monopoly on Linux.<br>
Most entities who gain a monopoly do not behave
well, and the user pays<br>
the price.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
I am with Michael on this point. I am init agnostic
and just don't care, but to claim the evil empire of
Red Hat is behind this? Seems a bit bombastic? We
all know the freedom haters of Debian remove choice at
every turn, and that is why they are backing the init
choice of systemd. Once Red Hat controls everything,
then Debian can finally close down. Who needs those
pesky Debian dev meetings anyway? Always yammering
about some social contract this and social contract
that.<br>
<br>
Gento wanted to give it's users only one choice, most
like due to Red Hat financial interests, but the user
base needed to be appeased, so they gave you a
"choice" of which system to use when you installed it.
Some choice. Systemd or the old system! Ha! Only two
choices! Proof they are in league!<span class="im
HOEnZb"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
SteveT<br>
<br>
Steve Litt<br>
August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just
the Facts<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust</a><br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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</span><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
-- <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Damon@damtek.com" target="_blank">Damon@damtek.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:404-271-8699"
target="_blank">404-271-8699</a></font></span>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Damon@damtek.com">Damon@damtek.com</a>
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