<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Maybe Linux has gotten too easy to use. I think the divide between average sysadmin and regular user has narrowed, Sort of like the way it did with windows. The avg sysadmin can do a lot before having to look for mentoring these days. The odds of finding help on the internet has also gone up a bunch. We have raised up a self-reliant new generation or three. <br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jan 2, 2015, at 8:15 PM, Shawn <<a href="mailto:taaj.shawn@gmail.com">taaj.shawn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><p dir="ltr">IMHO offering trainings and studying for certs as a core attribute of the ale takes away from the ingenuity of learning something by way of tribal knowledge.. It's that very spirit of conquest that enables individuals to be a great engineer.. Not a book on how to fsck a disk :).. If taking a 50 dollar hardware setup and turning it into a full fledged media center doesn't do it for you, why would a 500 dollar piece of paper.. Certs are not worth the papyrus they were inscribed on. This group offers irrefutable discussions on projects that make kangaroos hop backwards.. Let's keep it that way. O</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 2, 2015 7:10 PM, "Jim Kinney" <<a href="mailto:jkinney@jimkinney.us">jkinney@jimkinney.us</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>By being NOT distro specific, LPI shot themselves in the foot. All other certs are very vendor specific. Very few places will use both RedHat and Debian for business needs. Thus LPI dies at the gate.<br>
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Unless there is a tool chain that is GPL and can basically upload a meeting on the fly with a minor delay so it's DONE when a meeting heads for beer, it's not a long term viable solution.<br>
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All of the ideas are good. But the active, committed body count is what's lacking. If people can't show up once a month for a meeting, how can they scrape up the time for an extra 2-10 hours to support the meeting. I live in a little bubble on virtual reality and don't know enough outside people to pull together a good talk every month. <br>
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Honestly, I'm tickled pink that ALE has lasted this long. When (not if) it finally dies, it will be missed. But not missed enough for people to spend off-work time any more. I pick up new hobbies like s stray dog picks up fleas. Brewing and blacksmithing have little use for Linux (other than controllers which have little sizzle appeal) so work is work and off-time is precious.<br>
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THAT is why ALE is in decline. It used to be we all got paid to do our hobby. But most of us grew up and found new hobbies. The new college people have Google and don't need us grey beards as much.<br>
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Of course we also have Apple to thank. When OSX came out, suddenly geeks everywhere could get their *NIX happy one with little effort beyond a simple soul transaction. I watched in horror as ALE meetings were infiltrated by Mac monsters and people started to not come back. When the Apple horror show was extended to Intel systems, ALE meetings sizes dropped overnight.<br>
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Scratch your head and recall the timeline. Gnome devels had chased the Apple UI for years while KDE did windows on Linux.<br>
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ALE is dying. Old people do mailing lists. My kids don't even read their email. "Hangouts" ate currently cool and I have zilch interest.<br>
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Maybe someone under 40 wants to link ALE into the current decade. I'm at a loss as to why Facebook is popular so I'm not the right person. Oh. The "kids" don't use Facebook now. Only us old people.<br>
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Get off my lawn!<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On January 2, 2015 5:26:58 PM EST, Brian MacLeod <<a href="mailto:nym.bnm@gmail.com" target="_blank">nym.bnm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Many times we've been asked to try and find a way to do recordings of meetings, but ultimately it takes additional resources to do this work (capture, sync audio, decent size data pipe/server to relay) that few have ever contributed (thank you Aaron, for doing pretty much all of the capture and editing the last couple of years at Central). But there's a lot of work and time wrapped up in producing the videos and getting them available for folks, and it is a pretty thankless job.</div><div><br></div><div>If we moved to a video conference set up, I could see a bit more involvement from members, but, like so many things in the linux world, you'll have arguments over platforms because they aren't free in any sense, to free but restricted, to free in all ways, but not really all that good. And again, all of those will require some bandwidth to provide a decent experience. It's doable, but you will have naysayers, no matter what platfor
m is
chosen, and considering how fun we make the political flare ups here, folks shy away from trying this. I know *I* have, and that was at times when I had resources to bring to bear on the problem.</div><div><div><br></div></div><div>If we can't agree on a video conference platform, I very highly doubt we'll get agreement on what a certification would look like. And frankly, that would be something more attuned to something a national organization should undertake (LOPSA or LPI). Oh wait, yeah, LPI still isn't considered a serious certification even after developing a curriculum and tests...and LOPSA is for sysadmins of all OS platforms.</div><div><br></div><div>bnm</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Michael Brodeur <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mikejoebro@yahoo.com" target="_blank">mikejoebro@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div>Well, something I wrote before was recording the meetings where we discuss relevant material for Linux users. This can be a session focused upon a useful feature, or maybe one that will assist with certifications.</div><div><br></div><div>That way, even if people can't attend, there will be something on the web for them to view at their convenience. We can use a video conferencing application for remote viewers, and record the meetings using whatever software is appropriate.</div><div><br></div><div>Hell, maybe we should create our own certification that's relevant for jobs here in the US?<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><div><div><br>On Jan 2, 2015, at 4:11 PM, Brian MacLeod <<a href="mailto:nym.bnm@gmail.com" target="_blank">nym.bnm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Not to mention that as far as the whole helping
users
get jobs front, that was part of what was driving the formation of a LOPSA chapter here in Atlanta last year. Mentoring, instilling ethics into operations and all that.<div><br></div><div>Then everyone got busy there, too.</div><div><br></div><div>If ALE takes up this mantle, then there is less need for LOPSA here. If LOPSA gets restarted, then it could take some folks here away. I'm not saying everyone will go either/or. But people are busy, and they'll make choices that best benefit them, and with as many groups as there are in Atlanta, you can't possibly attend everything in your circles of interest.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But that's why I said something. If we don't want it to die, we need to look at what ALE *CAN* do to stay relevant and interesting enough for folks to dedicate some time to it, even it is the occasional post on the mailing list and attending a meeting here or there. It'd be really great if we could get mo
re
presenters too, but I already know that particular well is pretty dry right now.</div><div><br></div><div>bnm</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Michael Brodeur <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mikejoebro@yahoo.com" target="_blank">mikejoebro@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I've mentioned this before, but I think the group needs to expand beyond a hobbyist base. If we start focusing more on helping Linux users get certified and get jobs, that may help mitigate dwindling numbers.<br>
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Sent from my iPhone<br>
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> On Jan 2, 2015, at 11:55 AM, Leam Hall <<a href="mailto:leamhall@gmail.com" target="_blank">leamhall@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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> Want an outsiders opinion?<br>
><br>
> Whether or not ALE meetings continue I personally find the mailing list very useful. It's my "go to" resource for linux stuff that isn't distro specific or when I want an educated but diverse set of opinions.<br>
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> The question every organization; be it business, government, or social, must answer is "why do we exist?". The answer changes, often faster than the organization. Some orgs die, some linger on, and a few actually manage to grow through change.<br>
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> There have always been lower grade admins. The same goes for programmers, "business analysts", writers, educators, etc. There are lots of needs out there; slow websites, where to find the best hosting package, open source project needs devs/testers/docs, small office networking, the list goes on.<br>
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> For a group of people who help others succeed, the members need chances to help and time to grow themselves. So my recommendation would be to take a group look at the options, figure out what is fun for you, and start moving in that direction.<br>
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> Leam<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> <a href="http://31challenge.net" target="_blank">http://31challenge.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://31challenge.net/insight" target="_blank">http://31challenge.net/insight</a><br>
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Ale mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a></span><br><span>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</span><br><span><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<p style="margin-top:2.5em;margin-bottom:1em;border-bottom:1px solid #000"></p><pre><hr><br>Ale mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br></pre></blockquote></div><br>
--<br>
Jim Kinney<br>
Linux Systems Analyst<br>
Physicist/Brewer<br>
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See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
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<br></blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Ale mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a></span><br><span>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</span><br><span><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>