<p dir="ltr">+1</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 22, 2014 12:48 AM, "Jay Lozier" <<a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com">jslozier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font size="+1"><font face="Ubuntu">From what I have observed, the
biggest problem is that many people refuse to adapt to the
changes in the work place. Changes require one learns new skills
and sometimes reinvent one's self. Also, some tend to psych
themselves out, setting themselves up for complete failure. Both
are really attitude problems.<br>
<br>
Jay<br>
<br>
</font></font>
<div>On 05/22/2014 12:36 AM, Wolf Halton
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Or the IT grad students on the list... Or Anthro or
Education researchers. People are strange about the level of
interest they have just learning anything. My students also were
differentiated more by attitude than aptitude. My pet theory is
that a person who knows how to actively integrate the new info
with their current store is going to have an easier time
learning anything.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 19, 2014 3:48 PM, "Tom Freeman"
<<a href="mailto:tfreeman@intel.digichem.net" target="_blank">tfreeman@intel.digichem.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
From conversations with students - the fact that a phone
doesn't have the same UI as a computer doesn't matter.
Apparently (assuming I'm not making a bigger idiot of myself
than usual), a large percentage of the population sees "phone"
as a completely different beast than "computer" even if the
"phone" in question is working in the same fashion as their
"computer". As such, apparently "easy" and "hard" don't mean a
whole lot.<br>
<br>
Wonder if one of the academic admins on this list could
convince a psychology researcher that there is a deep,
probably long lasting, research project here??<br>
<br>
On Mon, 19 May 2014, Jay Lozier wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I partially agree, some users will not switch from their
comfort zone at<br>
all. It does not matter if there is an excellent reason such
as the OS is no<br>
longer supported. Others will switch easily.<br>
<br>
Also, if the UI is a problem, many users would have never
used a smartphone<br>
or tablet with their very different UIs.<br>
<br>
The sysadmins could be a bigger problem if they refuse to
update their<br>
skills. But there is a very serious stick available to bring
them in-line:<br>
dismissal.<br>
<br>
About differences between CLI commands, I find the more I
work with<br>
different OSes, distros, programming languages, etc. there
is a lot of<br>
transferable knowledge. Yes there are differences that need
to learned in<br>
syntax and terminology (Ruby hash vs Python dictionary) but
the concepts are<br>
the same. As I use Linux more, the more comfortable I am
with the CLI and<br>
sometime find it more convenient to use than a GUI.<br>
<br>
On 19/05/14 10:57, Lightner, Jeff wrote:<br>
<br>
Uh no. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
My point was that it is the end users that are the
problem. <br>
Saying “a desktop is a desktop” is all well and good
but the<br>
reason most organizations delayed upgrading from XP to
Windows 7<br>
was because even changes in Windows desktops are
painful to roll<br>
out to end users. Telling them they have to go from
Windows to<br>
Linux (and change many of the underlying tools such as
the<br>
office suite) would be even more painful. Not because
it is<br>
technically difficult but because people are resistant
to change<br>
AND because many people don’t really “understand” what
is<br>
happening when they do something.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
My discussion of Admins was because we (UNIX/Linux
admins at<br>
least) are more likely to embrace change if for no
other reason<br>
than it is “cool” to learn new things. Having said
that<br>
however, I have met a fair number of admins that
didn’t want to<br>
be bothered with learning the Solaris or HP-UX way if
they<br>
started on AIX or vice-versa. In Windows admin land
MS has<br>
been weaning them off of GUIs for a while now and I’ve
talked to<br>
both the kind of MS Admin that rails against this and
the type<br>
that realizes how much more power they have with
command line<br>
tools. In some shops the MS Admins are the ones who
end up<br>
working on the first Linux systems. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
That doesn’t mean you can’t have your preferences (I
loved<br>
HP-UX) but you do need to learn the differences. For
me it has<br>
all been fairly easy because I started on DOS went to
Novell<br>
then to UNIX and Xenix and finally Linux so I’ve seen
the<br>
progression. The key is getting the basic
tools/concepts and<br>
transferring your knowledge to the new platform then
building on<br>
that with the esoteric behaviors unique to each. I
was first<br>
introduced to command line in DOS and to “users” and
“groups” in<br>
Novell. Both of those experiences lent themselves
very well to<br>
learning UNIX where essentially I just had to make
myself a<br>
cheat sheet of the different command names for the
same<br>
functions. (type = cat, dir = ls, copy = cp, rename =
mv etc…).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>]
On Behalf<br>
Of Jim Kinney<br>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:30 AM<br>
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<br>
Subject: Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation -
Linux<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hmm. Interesting point. Admins.<br>
<br>
From a user perspective, a desktop is a desktop is a
desktop. Plenty<br>
of Windows people have switch to Mac and been productive is
a short<br>
learning cycle. That suggests a new desktop _can_ be
learned.<br>
<br>
But admins are another group altogether.<br>
<br>
How things are done behind the scenes is really, REALLY
different<br>
between windows, Linux and Mac (and Solaris/Oracle, and
between Linux<br>
variants, etc). The tools that exist to support admins for
large scale<br>
deployments are radically different between the systems as
the<br>
philosophy is extremely radically different between the
systems.<br>
<br>
So I would put forward that the wholesale adoption of Linux
will<br>
depend on the retraining of the existing admins so they are
willing to<br>
tell upstream "sure, Linux will be useful here".<br>
<br>
Ha! Then maybe the Mac admins can work somewhere other than
retail! <br>
8D<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Lightner, Jeff<br>
<<a href="mailto:JLightner@dsservices.com" target="_blank">JLightner@dsservices.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
While I’d like to think Windows is on the way out I will say
that this<br>
isn’t the first time its demise has been predicted.
Unfortunately<br>
there are way too many people (organizations especially)
that are not<br>
willing to pull the plug because of the learning curve. I
know<br>
you’ll all say that Linux is easier etc… but the fact is
MOST users<br>
don’t really understand computers and making them learn
ANYTHING new<br>
is quite difficult. (If you don’t believe that find out
how long it<br>
took most organizations to get their executives off a
blackberry<br>
products – if they have.)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I recall just a few years back where China and other
governments were<br>
planning on making their own Linux distros but never saw
much traction<br>
on that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It’s funny how things go. M$’ stated reasoning for creating
NT was to<br>
take over the UNIX market. Instead they killed off
Novell. Linux on<br>
the other hand has made deep inroads into the former UNIX
markets<br>
mainly because the admins that do one can do the other.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>]
On Behalf Of<br>
Jim Kinney<br>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:11 AM<br>
To: Atlanta User Group (E-mail)<br>
Subject: Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Doc format is often required when there will be editing
done. Often<br>
recruiters will strip contact data or even change layout.
Internally,<br>
some places will add notes to résumés.<br>
<br>
On May 17, 2014 11:06 PM, "Boris Borisov" <<a href="mailto:bugyatl@gmail.com" target="_blank">bugyatl@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I cannot count how many times is been required to send
resume in .DOC<br>
format when I'm applying for IT positions. And this are
people from<br>
IT. For government folk will take a lot more.<br>
<br>
On 5/18/14, Jay Lozier <<a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> Requiring open formats is actually OS agnostic but any
movement in<br>
that<br>
> direction makes FOSS applications competitive. There
was a UK<br>
proposal to<br>
> require ODF formats for all government documents a few
months ago.<br>
There was<br>
> some discussion about this on the LO user list and the
consensus was<br>
it<br>
> would hurt MS as it evens the playing field for all
office suites<br>
Many<br>
> assumed if adopted that other vendors would be able to
add ODF<br>
support<br>
> rather easily and FOSS alternatives (LO, AOO, and
Calligra) would be<br>
> competing on merits. It would help Linux because the
FOSS office<br>
suites on<br>
> Linux all use ODF as their native format However, on
the LO user<br>
list, I<br>
> think the consensus was users would be more likely to
switch suites<br>
rather<br>
> than OSes if the proposal was adopted.<br>
><br>
> On 05/17/2014 07:22 PM, Wolf Halton wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> If several governments start requiring open
formats, that will help<br>
too.<br>
>> Windows is on a downward trajectory. They cannot
decide if they<br>
want to<br>
>> stay on the desktop/laptop horse or fully commit to
the<br>
phone/tablet<br>
>> horse, so they are about to find themselves on
their collective<br>
butts<br>
>> between the ruts of the trails of those 2 horses,
running away.<br>
>><br>
>> Wolf Halton<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - <a href="http://sourcefreedom.com" target="_blank">http://sourcefreedom.com</a><br>
>> Security in the Cloud - <a href="http://AtlantaCloudTech.com" target="_blank">http://AtlantaCloudTech.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Jay Lozier <<a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I saw a link to this article on Softpedia (from
Ostatic):<br>
>>><br>
>>><a href="http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows-X" target="_blank">http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows-X</a><br>
P-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml<br>
>>><br>
>>> The article noted the Chinese government is
beginning to push<br>
Chinese XP<br>
>>> users to consider adopting Linux. It did note
that many user<br>
preferred<br>
>>> applications do not have a Linux version
currently available. But<br>
often<br>
>>> there are FOSS equivalents available that are
suitable for many<br>
users. It<br>
>>> also noted that Russia and Germany are actively
pursuing Linux.<br>
>>><br>
>>> My take is this is probably what Linux needs to
get market<br>
traction; a<br>
>>> very large market to switch to Linux. If the
Chinese convert to<br>
mostly<br>
>>> Linux hardware vendors and commercial software
vendors will need<br>
to<br>
>>> support Linux or abandon the Chinese market.
Other than the<br>
unmentionable<br>
>>> I believe most vendors will follow market
trends. If the trends is<br>
>>> towards Linux, they will follow.<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Jay Lozier<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Ale mailing list<br>
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><br>
> --<br>
> Jay Lozier<br>
> <a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
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<pre cols="72">--
Jay Lozier
<a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a></pre>
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