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<font size="+1"><font face="Ubuntu">I partially agree, some users
will not switch from their comfort zone at all. It does not
matter if there is an excellent reason such as the OS is no
longer supported. Others will switch easily. <br>
<br>
Also, if the UI is a problem, many users would have never used a
smartphone or tablet with their very different UIs.<br>
<br>
The sysadmins could be a bigger problem if they refuse to update
their skills. But there is a very serious stick available to
bring them in-line: dismissal.<br>
<br>
About differences between CLI commands, I find the more I work
with different OSes, distros, programming languages, etc. there
is a lot of transferable knowledge. Yes there are differences
that need to learned in syntax and terminology (Ruby hash vs
Python dictionary) but the concepts are the same. As I use Linux
more, the more comfortable I am with the CLI and sometime find
it more convenient to use than a GUI.<br>
<br>
</font></font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/05/14 10:57, Lightner, Jeff
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Uh
no.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My
point was that it is the end users that are the problem.
Saying “a desktop is a desktop” is all well and good but the
reason most organizations delayed upgrading from XP to
Windows 7 was because even changes in Windows desktops are
painful to roll out to end users. Telling them they have to
go from Windows to Linux (and change many of the underlying
tools such as the office suite) would be even more painful.
Not because it is technically difficult but because people
are resistant to change AND because many people don’t really
“understand” what is happening when they do something.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My
discussion of Admins was because we (UNIX/Linux admins at
least) are more likely to embrace change if for no other
reason than it is “cool” to learn new things. Having said
that however, I have met a fair number of admins that didn’t
want to be bothered with learning the Solaris or HP-UX way
if they started on AIX or vice-versa. In Windows admin
land MS has been weaning them off of GUIs for a while now
and I’ve talked to both the kind of MS Admin that rails
against this and the type that realizes how much more power
they have with command line tools. In some shops the MS
Admins are the ones who end up working on the first Linux
systems.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That
doesn’t mean you can’t have your preferences (I loved HP-UX)
but you do need to learn the differences. For me it has
all been fairly easy because I started on DOS went to Novell
then to UNIX and Xenix and finally Linux so I’ve seen the
progression. The key is getting the basic tools/concepts
and transferring your knowledge to the new platform then
building on that with the esoteric behaviors unique to
each. I was first introduced to command line in DOS and to
“users” and “groups” in Novell. Both of those experiences
lent themselves very well to learning UNIX where essentially
I just had to make myself a cheat sheet of the different
command names for the same functions. (type = cat, dir =
ls, copy = cp, rename = mv etc…).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org">ale-bounces@ale.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org">mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Kinney<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 19, 2014 10:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation
- Linux<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hmm.
Interesting point. Admins.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">From
a user perspective, a desktop is a desktop is a
desktop. Plenty of Windows people have switch to Mac
and been productive is a short learning cycle. That
suggests a new desktop _can_ be learned.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">But
admins are another group altogether.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">How
things are done behind the scenes is really, REALLY
different between windows, Linux and Mac (and
Solaris/Oracle, and between Linux variants, etc). The
tools that exist to support admins for large scale
deployments are radically different between the systems
as the philosophy is extremely radically different
between the systems.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">So I would
put forward that the wholesale adoption of Linux will
depend on the retraining of the existing admins so they
are willing to tell upstream "sure, Linux will be useful
here".
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ha! Then maybe the Mac admins can work
somewhere other than retail! 8D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:56 AM,
Lightner, Jeff <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:JLightner@dsservices.com" target="_blank">JLightner@dsservices.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">While
I’d like to think Windows is on the way out I will
say that this isn’t the first time its demise has
been predicted. Unfortunately there are way too
many people (organizations especially) that are not
willing to pull the plug because of the learning
curve. I know you’ll all say that Linux is easier
etc… but the fact is MOST users don’t really
understand computers and making them learn ANYTHING
new is quite difficult. (If you don’t believe that
find out how long it took most organizations to get
their executives off a blackberry products – if they
have.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
recall just a few years back where China and other
governments were planning on making their own Linux
distros but never saw much traction on that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It’s
funny how things go. M$’ stated reasoning for
creating NT was to take over the UNIX market.
Instead they killed off Novell. Linux on the other
hand has made deep inroads into the former UNIX
markets mainly because the admins that do one can do
the other.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Kinney<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Atlanta User Group (E-mail)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ale] Chinese government
recommendation - Linux</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Doc format is often required when there will be
editing done. Often recruiters will strip contact
data or even change layout. Internally, some
places will add notes to résumés.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
May 17, 2014 11:06 PM, "Boris Borisov" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bugyatl@gmail.com"
target="_blank">bugyatl@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
cannot count how many times is been required to
send resume in .DOC<br>
format when I'm applying for IT positions. And
this are people from<br>
IT. For government folk will take a lot more.<br>
<br>
On 5/18/14, Jay Lozier <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com"
target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> Requiring open formats is actually OS
agnostic but any movement in that<br>
> direction makes FOSS applications
competitive. There was a UK proposal to<br>
> require ODF formats for all government
documents a few months ago. There was<br>
> some discussion about this on the LO user
list and the consensus was it<br>
> would hurt MS as it evens the playing field
for all office suites Many<br>
> assumed if adopted that other vendors would
be able to add ODF support<br>
> rather easily and FOSS alternatives (LO,
AOO, and Calligra) would be<br>
> competing on merits. It would help Linux
because the FOSS office suites on<br>
> Linux all use ODF as their native format
However, on the LO user list, I<br>
> think the consensus was users would be more
likely to switch suites rather<br>
> than OSes if the proposal was adopted.<br>
><br>
> On 05/17/2014 07:22 PM, Wolf Halton wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> If several governments start requiring
open formats, that will help too.<br>
>> Windows is on a downward trajectory.
They cannot decide if they want to<br>
>> stay on the desktop/laptop horse or
fully commit to the phone/tablet<br>
>> horse, so they are about to find
themselves on their collective butts<br>
>> between the ruts of the trails of those
2 horses, running away.<br>
>><br>
>> Wolf Halton<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sourcefreedom.com"
target="_blank">
http://sourcefreedom.com</a><br>
>> Security in the Cloud - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://AtlantaCloudTech.com"
target="_blank">
http://AtlantaCloudTech.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Jay
Lozier <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com"
target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I saw a link to this article on
Softpedia (from Ostatic):<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows-XP-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml"
target="_blank">
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows-XP-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> The article noted the Chinese
government is beginning to push Chinese XP<br>
>>> users to consider adopting Linux.
It did note that many user preferred<br>
>>> applications do not have a Linux
version currently available. But often<br>
>>> there are FOSS equivalents
available that are suitable for many users. It<br>
>>> also noted that Russia and Germany
are actively pursuing Linux.<br>
>>><br>
>>> My take is this is probably what
Linux needs to get market traction; a<br>
>>> very large market to switch to
Linux. If the Chinese convert to mostly<br>
>>> Linux hardware vendors and
commercial software vendors will need to<br>
>>> support Linux or abandon the
Chinese market. Other than the unmentionable<br>
>>> I believe most vendors will follow
market trends. If the trends is<br>
>>> towards Linux, they will follow.<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Jay Lozier<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com"
target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
>>> Ale mailing list<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"
target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS
lists at<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"
target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> Ale mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"
target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"
target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Jay Lozier<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com"
target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
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<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:fuchsia">Athena</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:fuchsia">®</span><span
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Created for the Cause</span><span
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</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Making
a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">____________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7D7D7D">CONFIDENTIALITY
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
James P. Kinney III<br>
<i><br>
</i>Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a
jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's
like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the
dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br>
<i><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Jay Lozier
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com">jslozier@gmail.com</a></pre>
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