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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/14/2013 04:06 PM, Ron Frazier
(ALE) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There is nothing free about free software. Not for the developers. Check out this link and quote.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Then you miss the point. The point is that the software—whether
written by an individual, hundreds or thousands of individuals, or
entire large corporations—is free for all <i>to analyze, review,
audit, use, modify, </i>and/or <i>redistribute</i> (that is,
sharing).<br>
<br>
When I write software personally, I typically BSD, MIT or GPL it.<br>
<br>
Our position as a corporation is somewhat undefined at the moment,
though I'm inclined to go with a dual-license model. Probably AGPL
or GPL for the primary license, and a relatively lean EULA if you
want to go out of those bounds.<br>
<br>
Why would I do such a thing?<br>
<br>
Because I want to encourage the use of free software overall. I
don't really want to sell proprietary licenses, but knowing that I
will personally chose a BSD or MIT-licensed product over a sometimes
superior GPL one for licensing reasons, the option is reasonable and
fair, I think.<br>
<br>
[snip non-relevant stats]<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">So, I agree that it's great when software is free to me as a user, and like to use some of it. But, I don't agree that software has to be free, and, in fact, it has to be not free, sometimes, in order to provide the incentive for a developer to spend the time and resources necessary to develop it.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Developers who are motivated solely or largely by financial means
tend to produce sub-par software. I'll even go so far as to cite
Microsoft Windows as an example of this. The product itself, from a
technical point of view, really stinks. It is rigid, it has
THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of legacy components, configuration
settings and knobs. Things that Just Work on Linux and have for
years (let's think USB) are <i>still to this very day</i>
problematic on Microsoft Windows.<br>
<br>
After all, what kind of brain-dead kernel can't just load a driver
on-demand regardless of what port the thing is put into? That'd be
NTOSKRNL.EXE and its friends.<br>
<br>
And yes, I do know enough about Windows to give useful and
meaningful technical comparisons that are actually relevant. I may
not use it as my day-to-day operating system, but I have spent more
than enough time screwing with its innards to know how a good chunk
of it works internally.<br>
<br>
When they can get little issues like USB correct, then a SLOC
comparison would maybe be apples-to-apples. But since that's not
the case... (seriously. 99% of the USB devices out there that have
Windows drivers available for them make you install the drivers
first, and the hardware won't work correctly if you don't. And each
time you plug it in a different root hub, a new instance of the
driver has to be installed. That's so stupid I can't even begin to
describe it. Under Linux, if it has a driver, it Just Works and far
more quickly.)<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">But, that's not the case with me. So, Mike T and Phil, what you're essentially telling me is that I could spend weeks reconfiguring everything I own, copying data, installing things, learning new maintenance and configuration and backup procedures, and possibly buying new equipment. And, in so doing, I could get back to about the same level of functionality that I have now. Plus, the pc's would be somewhat easier to maintain and somewhat more secure, given my usage habits.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
If you think it'd require weeks, sure.<br>
<br>
A basic understanding of LVM can be had in a few days time.<br>
<br>
A basic understanding of the POSIX model comes with regular use of
the system and understanding the design and some history of the
system goes a long way. Though you really only need that if you're
doing development; otherwise, learning the commands to do things and
knowing how to quickly find the man page(s) you need is the primary
skill, and that takes hardly any time at all to master.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I just don't have a strong motive to do that.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
*shrug*<br>
<br>
As long as you've been using Linux—at least based on your posting
history—I'd say that you've been using the system and on the list
more than long enough to have passively found things to learn about
and piece together, assuming motivation enough to have done so. I
picked up Linux in 1996, back before LUGs and books and stuff were
written on the topic, and within one year I was able to run a server
system and do basic programming on it. Of course, my motivation was
that I had no money, as I wasn't old enough to have a job, and I
couldn't raise hundreds of dollars for that new-fangled Microsoft
crashes-all-the-time stuff that everyone was so into.<br>
<br>
I know that I've mentioned LVM to you before. It's not that
difficult to setup or to learn, and the return on investment will
pay off infinitely as you use the system. There are so many things
that you can do with LVM that you simply cannot do with filesystems
on bare metal (for example, zero-downtime backups) that it's kinda
silly in this day and age to <i>not</i> use LVM. Especially since
on e.g., Ubuntu, Debian, RHEL and CentOS, LVM is offered to you out
of the box with zero effort required to install on top of.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* running my remote wireless weather station
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I don't see why that wouldn't be possible with Linux. Linux and
wireless applications go hand-in-hand together.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">app is win specific</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
And? So is the application for the stamps.com reader. <a
href="http://is.gd/pxz836">Doesn't mean you cannot use it under
Linux</a>. It's just a USB HID (Human Interface Device).<br>
<br>
I'd need to take a look at your WWS but, put simply, if it can be
controlled by a userspace application running on top of Windows,
then it can be controlled by a userspace application running on top
of Linux.<br>
<br>
Or, put another way, the only thing that stops you from doing so is
a lack of motivation. Most hardware speaks really simple
protocols. Any person with some software or engineering experience
can easily make heads or tails of it with some simple
experimentation. Before I'd thought to look and see if anyone had
reverse-engineered the HID protocol that the stamps.com scale uses,
I'd done a little work on it myself and managed to get most of the
readings correct. Of course, I stopped once I'd found someone else
did the same work—never reinvent the wheel if you don't have to.<br>
<br>
And that's another stellar reason to use free software. It gives us
the ability to reuse components and not have to waste time—making,
for example, my use of time far more efficient than it otherwise
would be. If I had to write every single component of every single
project I worked on, I would never have a project done.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* remote controlling my Dad's windows box
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I remote control Windows boxes all the time. No, I don't have Windows
installed. I do it from Fedora.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
please elaborate, as I may need to do that at some point in the future</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Have you ever asked Google? I can't find a page that *doesn't* say
how to do it on a Linux system if I search for it.<br>
<br>
[snip things you didn't respond to]<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* playing blu ray discs - linux cannot
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
It can't? That's news to me. I do it on my Fedora system.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I thought that a) encryption was not cracked, b) encryption changes, and c) it was illegal - although I certainly wouldn't MIND viewing my own blu-ray discs on a linux machine or vm.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm guessing that you haven't asked Google about this, either. Not
even one minute of searching reveals that commercial BD-R has been
playable on Linux since 2010.<br>
<br>
As to whether or not it is illegal, I suppose that depends on if you
believe that you're allowed to—as the license states—perform the
work for personal use only. My reading is that I am allowed to play
back the things which I've licensed, so long as I comply with the
license.<br>
<br>
You may recall that DMCA does allow interoperability even of
cryptosystems for interoperability. It is a topic that has come up
on the list at least once or twice before, I am sure.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* multiple monitor setup - I have a triple monitor setup. I don't
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">think Mint 13 or Ubuntu 12.04 can run three monitors at all, except in
clone mode. In extended desktop mode, with two monitors, it
consistently assigns the wrong monitor as "primary". Thus new apps
start up on the wrong monitor, etc. I spent 2 hours messing with x
commands and xrander, etc. to fix that one time. Then, a later update
unfixed it. In some cases, when running on different pc's through a
kvm, the wrong screen resolution is detected, and enforced.
Uhm... Multiple-head support Just Works with 2 or 3 heads since about
Fedora 18, and has worked upstream even longer than that. I do it on
my
system.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Perhaps Ubuntu / Mint is more finicky about this than Fedora.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't see why, unless they've modified the KMS drivers in the
kernel or you have hardware that does not function with any KMS
drivers. However, I have yet to see an Intel or ATI system in ages
that doesn't work that way. I cannot speak to NVIDIA since I
stopped using them years ago due to problems with constantly faulty
hardware.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* running flash - I think Adobe stopped updating flash for linux,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">which is a security risk.
So? Mitigate with knowledge, or don't use it at all. I don't use it
at
all. I miss nothing.</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
For that matter, it seems that products which "<a
href="http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.ale/99398">betray
you</a>" are OK to not update. So, why not when the upstream
stops publishing updates for it? Or are you saying that it's okay
to run insecure software on the Internet when Ron Frazier says it's
OK, and it's not OK when Ron Frazier says it is not OK?<br>
<br>
I'm more than a little confused on that one.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* running scrivner - a writers program for storyboarding and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">constructing novels, etc.
There are alternative programs available, but have you attempted to run
this program under Wine?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* running the metatrader currency trading program (whenever I can
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">find money to trade with)
Again, have you tried Wine for this program?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I'm aware of wine and had it installed on my old Ubuntu install before I fired them and went to Mint. I haven't tried these apps in it.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Then—as I've asked before—please don't make claims about things you
do not carry knowledge of. That simply leads to dissemination of
bad information.<br>
<br>
Of course, if they don't work in Wine, I'd want to hear about it.
At least there, I can offer a hand.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* updating my gps
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Why not? I've updated TomTom units without Microsoft Windows just
fine. You have to jump through a couple more hoops because they don't
document how to do so manually, but it's not hard to figure out.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I have a TomTom. Can you point me to some info on that?</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Point you to? No. It's been a little while. However, their
downloads can (or used to, anyway) be purchasable and downloadable
on their Web site and I was able to put the new maps on the TomTom
media just fine without Windows.<br>
<br>
Of course, I stopped using single-purpose GPS hardware when
smartphones became ubiquitous. No need for them anymore (and I
honestly wonder why they still exist—doesn't seem much point to me
anymore, now that phones can have offline maps and cache routes and
stuff internally).<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* updating my mp3 player from sansa
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Never worked with one.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">* updating my ebook readers
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Not sure why you need a computer to do that at all.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Mainly talking about firmware updates on these things. Any pc can transfer files by usb. Some of the ebooks are protected and require Adobe Digital Editions. That may be the wrong name, but it's something like that.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Again, I don't know why you'd need a computer at all to do that.
Every eInk reader I have ever owned updates itself just fine.
Though you can crack ("jailbreak") them if you want, and that
requires a computer to do.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Oh, I forgot, last time I checked, I cannot listen to Audible.com books on linux, although that could have changed. I do have an Audible player on android.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sounds like you have a workable solution for listening to
Audible.com books on Linux! After all, the program running on
Android is written in Java, and compiled to run in the Dalvik VM.<br>
<br>
Also, according to a quick search on Google, there are at least two
different methods for playing Audible.com books on Linux desktops,
one involiving the use of the official Audible software for Windows
running under Wine.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:f8249367-3279-4b83-ba15-8ef39eb88a53@email.android.com"
type="cite"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I will also admit that, sometimes, linux can do things for me that W
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">cannot.
Interesting that there is no list for that.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Nothing personal.
I wasn't trying to list that at the time. And, I can't think of too much to add to it. But, to be fair, here are some:
* allow me to build a pc with little or know software cost
* allow me to avoid yearly licence fees and periodic upgrade fees
* allow me to read the source code ( a benefit I very rarely use)
* allow me to boot an alternate os to troubleshoot the main os with dual boot or live cd
* allow the pc to be more secure
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
All of which are things that I assume are quite valuable. At least,
they are to me. I may not read the source to the Linux kernel—but
then again, so many others have. Security doesn't always come from
the fact that YOU read something that you use, but the fact that
PEOPLE CAN. And that is worth way more to me than not knowing where
my data truly goes or whether it can be secured against a given
threat.<br>
<br>
— Mike<br>
<br>
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