<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>And it is the very fact that "government" has the sole power to decide what is a crime and what is otherwise allowed is what makes the wholesale collection of data that can be used to determine all of our personal connections, likes, dislikes, political leanings, etc. extremely dangerous. <br>
<br></div>Forget the idea that we "elect" people to "represent us" in this country. (We all know that farce really died out after WWII). We all know that policy is being written by unelected people with a financial interest in the outcome and then turned into Law by an oligarchy beholden to the financial interests of those who drafted the policy. We all know that the design of the Declaration of Independence and ultimately the Constitution was a concerted effort to prevent the very growth of total government control of the population as a whole. <br>
<br></div>But power begets power and ultimately the only thing that matters is to retain hold of power.<br><br></div>Politically, the right and (what's remaining of) the left have each a tiny kernel of "good idea" in them. But for the most part, those tiny nuggets of philosophy have been turned into a rallying cry for total domination. <br>
<br></div>Make no bones about it. We are at war with ourselves. We have been at war since the late 50's. All that has changed is the general population is just now getting the memo. What is unknown is if the common people have already lost. In that, I am a pessimist.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Courtney Thomas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net" target="_blank">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>The previous statement:<br>
<br>
Which is the greater threat, government, or "criminals" ?<br>
<br>
says it all................<br>
<br>
Criminals are people which a given government designates as those
violating it's dictates, however established, i.e. government<small>
is<big> <big>the threat, either directly<br>
either by it's existence or by it's action, i.e. by
legislating what is a "crime"</big></big></small> and
enforcing same. <br>
<br>
The founders of this country clearly saw government, including
this one, as the existential problem and attempted to establish a
program of improved governance, realizing<br>
that this is a moving target and it is the responsibility, going
forward, or each generation, to either maintain, or redress, and
hopefully even improve, democratic goals,<br>
<br>
Finally, the truth is: the problem is not the government, rather
the people of the United States now have the government they have
earned, and are earning. Nothing's free,<br>
especially freedom.<br>
<br>
As Dylan said at the conclusion of his "115th Dream", "I jes
say good luck"<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Courtney Thomas <br></font></span><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/21/2013 10:07 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Hi Jim,
You and I don't agree on this and probably never will. There's no point in beating the issue to death and I don't want to get in a flame war. Nor do I mean any offense.
Your first statement is understandable, and I could even agree with it to a point, depending on the circumstances.
Your second statement is patently false. Otherwise, we'd have no laws.
Good people don't commit crimes primarily because crimes generally hurt or kill people and hurting and killing people is morally wrong.
Evil people don't commit crimes for one of three main reasons. Those reasons do NOT include any moral inhibition. A) They're afraid of getting caught and punished. B) They don't have the resources. or C) They have been caught and are prevented from committing the crime.
Laws and law enforcement attempt to, and sometimes do, accomplish these things. So, to the extent that laws and law enforcement frighten criminals, deprive them of resources, and detain them, then laws stop crimes. That extent is definitively NOT nothing. Laws and law enforcement DO stop some crimes. Obviously, however, they don't stop ALL crimes.
Furthermore, it's a documented fact that 75% or so of violent felonies are committed by repeat offenders. So, if you permanently imprison or execute them the next time they repeat, then you reduce violent felonies by 75%.
Sincerely,
Ron
Jim Kinney <a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com" target="_blank"><jim.kinney@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>I choose to surrender NOTHING for a false sense of security. Laws don't
stop crime.
On Aug 21, 2013 3:27 PM, "Ron Frazier (ALE)" <
<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>
JD <a href="mailto:jdp@algoloma.com" target="_blank"><jdp@algoloma.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>On 08/21/2013 01:56 PM, leam hall wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>What I don't have an answer for it the balance between justice and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>privacy.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>While Ben Franklin's old quote is a great idea, there are too many
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>bad people in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>the world who didn't read it.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>So the 99.9999999% of good people in the world should give up their
privacy and
governments shouldn't be held accountable?
The terrorist have truly won.
I am more afraid of my own government than any acts of terror.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>Hi JD,
I am not endorsing the over reaching abuse of our government. See my
other post today for commentary.
However, I find your last statement to be fairly radical.
I do not have ANY fear that the workers at NSA, FBI, CIA, etc. will
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>be
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>using their power and knowledge to take the lives of 3000 of our
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>citizens
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>and destroy billions of dollars of property as the the terrorists did
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>at
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>World Trade Center. Those workers are, almost universally, working
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>prevent OUR lives from ending in a similar manner and protect us from
threats that we don't even know exist in some cases. Let's keep a
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>little
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>perspective here.
Good people have been giving up rights and privileges due to the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>actions
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>of a small percentage of bad actors since the beginning of the world.
There are thousands of laws which we must obey, not because WE would
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>abuse
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>our fellow citizens and customers and associates, but because OTHERS
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>would
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>abuse them. Those laws either make it harder for them to abuse or
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>easier
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>for us to catch and prosecute them or both. But, they also make it
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>much
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>harder on the good people and limit what we can do. There's no way
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>around
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>this, as a concept. It's just the way the world will always work as
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>long
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>as evil is in play.
The key is to find the right balance of what do you give up to stop
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>bad actors or at least slow them down and catch some of them.
Sincerely,
Ron
--
Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>Mail.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>energy
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very
quickly.)
Ron Frazier
<a href="tel:770-205-9422" value="+17702059422" target="_blank">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a message.
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</blockquote>
<pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre>
--
Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.
Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)
Ron Frazier
<a href="tel:770-205-9422" value="+17702059422" target="_blank">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT <a href="http://techstarship.com" target="_blank">techstarship.com</a>
Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr">-- <br>James P. Kinney III<br><i><i><i><i><br></i></i></i></i>Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br><i><i><i><i><br><a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br></i></i></i></i></div>
</div>