<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>+2 on humor :-)<br><br></div>EPA doesn't define jobs as "green" or any color. That's marketing speak!<br><br></div>I agree on electric cars mostly. It exchanges mobile air pollution (and water from leaks) for stationary air pollution and battery waste. At least the batteries can be recycled back into more batteries.<br>
<br></div>On the topic of electric cars:<br><br></div>They should be REQUIRED to have a sound!!! I about was run over in a parking desk by a Prius! I propose that HannaBarberra provide the sound of George Jetson's flying car to all electric car makers as a gift so we can at least pretend the world has advanced and hear the cars approaching.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Jay Lozier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div><div>+1 humor</div><div><br></div><div>The EPA's definition of "green" jobs and mine are very different. I prefer to focus on the entire process not just one aspect of the problem. Often "green" iniatives just shuffle the type of pollution problem and pollution sources around without really reducing the overall pollution.</div>
<div><br></div><div>For a variety of reasons I view all-electric cars as environmental pollution shuffling resulting no net gain. There may be a substitution of some heavy metal pollution in lieu of carbon dioxide. This may not be a wise trade-off. And the location of the carbon dioxide production has been moved from the tail pipe to the power plant.</div>
<div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div>On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:49:38 -0400, Richard Bronosky <<a href="mailto:richard@bronosky.com" target="_blank">richard@bronosky.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><br><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0.80ex;border-left:#0000ff 2px solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">But CFLs create "green jobs"! </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jul 3, 2013 12:43 PM, "Jay Lozier" <<a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<br>
In a previous job I got very familiar with the EPA rules which lowered my already low opinion of the EPA. One problem is that the disposal of the CFL bulbs should be at a hazardous waste facility certified to handle mercury not at a non-hazardous sanitary landfill. Technically you could be charged with a federal felony if you improperly dispose a hazardous waste - I am not sure if there are any minimum quantity.<br>
<br>
While incandescent bulbs used more energy they were non-hazardous waste when they burnt out.<br>
<br>
Also, CFL can aggravate certain medical problems which incandescent bulbs never did.<br>
<br>
Often overlooked is the manufacturing process for CFL and LED bulbs may be more damaging to the environment than for incandescent bulbs even with the higher energy consumption.<br>
<br>
Jay<br>
<br>
On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:16:18 -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE) <<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi all,<br>
<br>
Just wanted to drop a note about some LED light bulbs I've seen recently. As you may know, the manufacture of incandescent light bulbs is being phased out. The best current alternative is the compact fluorescent (CFL). These work well, and use about 1/4 the energy of an incandescent. The problem is that they have toxic mercury. If you break one, you have to take special steps to avoid exposure to mercury or mercury vapor.<br>
<br>
You can find info here:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www2.epa.gov/cfl" target="_blank">http://www2.epa.gov/cfl</a><br>
<br>
I had the (not) fun of experiencing the cleanup procedure the other day. I dropped one of these and it shattered. I put on vinyl gloves and removed every fragment I could find. I then wiped the carpet with a damp paper towel. I then vacuumed, even though the epa would rather you not, since almost all the residue was gone and I knew there were shards of glass in the carpet. I then threw the vacuum bag away (it needed it anyway). Finally, I ran the whole house attic fan to ventilate the house for 1/2 hour. They recommend venting for several hours if practical. What a pain.<br>
<br>
There are no really good alternatives. However, LED light bulbs are starting to become affordable. I saw an ad from newegg that said they have 30W equivalent bulbs in a 6 pack for about $ 5 ea. Also, I was surprised to find that there are some interesting alternatives now appearing at home depot and lowes. Home depot has two products from CREE. One is a 40W equivalent bulb for $ 10 and a 60W equivalent for $ 15. I'm waiting for affordable 100 W equivalents, but they're still about $ 45. So, we're getting there. I moved to all CFL a couple of years ago. I'm not quite ready to jump to LED yet, but maybe the prices will keep dropping.<br>
<br>
If you decide to buy some of these, there are at least three things you need to consider other than cost. First is size. Some of these are longer and / or wider than standard bulbs. Second, are they omnidirectional and do they cast shadows? Some bulbs have part of the bulb structure obscuring the bulb and would cast shadows in certain areas. Third, are they dimmable? Dimmability is a big advantage that incandescents have that most fluorescents don't. Some of the new LED's are dimmable. But, look at the specs. Some of them require new advanced dimmers. The CREE ones I mentioned, however, are dimmable with conventional old style dimmers.<br>
<br>
Also, the manufacturers like to play games with longevity ratings. One will say 10 years, another 20 years, etc. This is useless. You have to find how many hours per day they're figuring. Usually, it's 3, sometimes 6, etc. The Philips CFL's I just bought are rated at 11 years, at 3 hr / day. (The bulbs in my living room and work area run much more than 3 hr / day.) If you do the math, that works out to 12,000 hours. The cheaper CFL's may be rated only for 8,000 or 10,000 hours. A LED should last 20,000 hours or more. There are 8760 hours / year, so if you're running a bulb 12 - 24 hours / day, expect lots fewer days out of it.<br>
<br>
Home depot will recycle CFL's for you. Lowes might but I don't know. I don't know of any easy way to recycle bigger circular or straight fluorescent tubes. I wish I did, as there are a few fixtures in my house that use these.<br>
<br>
Has anyone else had experience with the new LED bulbs?<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.<br>
Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.<br>
<br>
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to<br>
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy<br>
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)<br>
<br>
Ron Frazier<br>
<a href="tel:770-205-9422" value="+17702059422" target="_blank">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a message.<br>
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<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Jay Lozier<br>
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</blockquote><br><br><br></div></div><div><div>-- </div><div><div>Jay Lozier<br><a href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-- <br>James P. Kinney III<br><i><i><i><i><br></i></i></i></i>Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br><i><i><i><i><br><a href="http://electjimkinney.org" target="_blank">http://electjimkinney.org</a><br><a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</i></i></i></i>
</div>