<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I was going to mention the metal foil tape a few messages back. My wife was on a duct-tape wallet kick 2 years ago, and was getting pretty good at them, so I need to suggest she try that out<br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>Pete Hardie<br>--------<br>Better Living Through Bitmaps</div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Jim Kinney <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>yeah... but duct tape and Al foil increase geek cred more than plonking down $3 for a finished product ever will :-)<br><br></div>Hmm. I have metal foil duct tape....<br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
A google search for rfid protective sleeve yields lots of interesting
results. The following caught my eye because it's a 3m product. They
usually produce pretty good stuff.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ElectricalOEM/Home/Products/DataProtectionSleeves/" target="_blank">http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ElectricalOEM/Home/Products/DataProtectionSleeves/</a><br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron<div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/20/2013 2:21 PM, Jim Kinney wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">If the gov issued ID came with RFID and it's not
working anymore, that's probably a much bigger problem than anyone
wants to have. Especially at the border on the way back in!<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Ron Frazier
(ALE) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
That stuff looks pretty cool. May end up needing it. I found this
information about enhanced drivers' licenses. I don't think GA has
implemented them yet, but they do have an rfid circuit.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they" target="_blank">https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they</a><br>
<br>
<quote on><br>
<br>
State-issued enhanced drivers licenses (EDLs) provide proof of
identity and U.S. citizenship, are issued in a secure process, and
include technology that makes travel easier. They provide travelers
with a low-cost, convenient alternative for entering the United States
from Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean through a land or sea port of
entry, in addition to serving as a permit to drive.
<p>The Department has been working with states to enhance their
drivers
licenses and identification documents to comply with travel rules under
the <a href="https://www.dhs.gov/files/crossingborders/whtibasics.shtm" target="_blank">Western
Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI)</a>, effective June 1, 2009. The
states of Michigan, New York, Vermont and Washington are issuing these
enhanced drivers licenses.</p>
<p>Enhanced drivers licenses make it easier for U.S. citizens to
cross
the border into the United States because they include</p>
<ul>
<li>a vicinity <a href="https://www.dhs.gov/files/crossingborders/gc_1197652575426.shtm" target="_blank">Radio
Frequency Identification (RFID)</a> chip that will signal a secure
system to pull up your biographic and biometric data for the CBP
officer as you approach the border inspection booth, and</li>
<li>a Machine Readable Zone (MRZ) or barcode that the CBP officer
can
read electronically if RFID isn't available.</li>
</ul>
<p>The top 39 land ports of entry, which process more than 95
percent
of land border crossings, are equipped with RFID technology that helps
facilitate travel by individual presenting EDLs or one of the other
RFID-enabled documents.<br>
</p>
<p><quote off><br>
</p>
<p>Might have to get some of the special shielding fabric you
mentioned
for my DL or a special pouch like I already have for my passport. It's
probably a crime to "vandalize" that card and deactivate the chip.<br>
</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Ron<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p><br>
On 6/20/2013 1:48 PM, Jim Kinney wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>wrap your RFID cards in this stuff:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.adafruit.com/products/1168" target="_blank">http://www.adafruit.com/products/1168</a><br>
<br>
</div>
or go anti-emf crazy and buy a larger blob from:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html" target="_blank">http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html</a><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Alex
Carver <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:agcarver+ale@acarver.net" target="_blank">agcarver+ale@acarver.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>On 6/20/2013 09:50, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">On
6/20/2013 10:49 AM, William Bagwell wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">On
Thursday 20 June 2013, Alex Carver wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">Ok,
then use the bright light to illuminate the card from the edge. If<br>
you get the light just right you should see a square dimple in the back<br>
of the card where the pocket for the chip is located. On my card,<br>
looking at the back of the card with the mag stripe on top, it is<br>
located just 5mm (to the center of the dimple) below the bottom edge of<br>
the mag stripe and 10 mm in from the right edge. A bright light shining<br>
across the card (the way you might shine light across a floor to look<br>
for a lost screw or other tiny part) should highlight the dimple.<br>
</blockquote>
Bingo! Barley detectable 'pad' about 5mm square. Confirmed on the<br>
sacrificial<br>
card - metallic foil and has the 2mm chip with in.<br>
<br>
On a Chase Slate it is above the mag stripe and the curved "Blink"
symbol<br>
points almost directly at it.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm interested to know if that card had any writing, symbols, or legend<br>
on it to indicate that you can use it wirelessly. What's the point of<br>
putting it in there if you don't notify the customer that he / she can<br>
use it that way?<br>
<br>
I used one of those 1,000,000 candle power hand held spotlights like you<br>
get at a tool or auto store to look through my cards. The trick is to<br>
hold the card in such a way so you don't blind yourself in the process.<br>
I don't think any of them have the rf circuitry. If they do, and I<br>
haven't been informed by the bank, I will be rather annoyed.<br>
<br>
I thought about getting a cheap rfid reader from amazon to tinker with<br>
and test the cards. 5 minutes of searching revealed a large enough<br>
disparity of pricing and technology that I gave up on that for the
moment.<br>
<br>
The following google search yields a large number of results that could<br>
be interesting. Haven't had time to sort through them.<br>
<br>
(destroy OR disable OR deactivate) rfid credit card<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Yes, if the card has the technology it's marked. AmEx uses a symbol
similar to the radio wave symbol you might see on a WiFi device (do a
google search for Wifi Symbol and it's the curved lines that you find
in most of the symbols). Their marketing lingo is ExpressPay. Visa
and Mastercard should have similar symbols or branding on the card.
THey don't put the technology in all of their cards so it has to be
obvious which cards do have it.<br>
<br>
I believe the RFID chip in a credit card is of the LF variety (kHz
range). There is also VHF and UHF RFID technology, too. Some readers
can handle all three types, others only one. Sparkfun has a few
readers, too.<br>
<br>
While doing a search I found a YouTube video with Adam Savage (of
Mythbuster fame) explaining to an audience at a tech show why
Discovery/Mythbusters aren't allowed to do an RFID episode (hint, the
credit card companies told them no).<br>
<br>
I'm not a tinfoil hat type person but these things are hackable (same
as the passport chips, too). It wouldn't be much of a problem if the
life cycle was shorter but the passports and credit cards are designed
to hang around for a few years or more. If a flaw is discovered that
exposes information, there's a very large population of devices out in
the field that have to get replaced quickly and that's not easy.
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
-- <br>
James P. Kinney III<br>
<i><i><i><i><br>
</i></i></i></i>Every time you stop a school, you will have to
build
a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like
feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br>
<i><i><i><i><br>
<a href="http://electjimkinney.org" target="_blank">http://electjimkinney.org</a><br>
<a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</i></i></i></i> </div>
<pre><fieldset></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre cols="72"><span><font color="#888888">--
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)
Ron Frazier
</font></span><div><a href="tel:770-205-9422" value="+17702059422" target="_blank">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT <a href="http://techstarship.com" target="_blank">techstarship.com</a>
Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU
</div></pre>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
-- <br>
James P. Kinney III<br>
<i><i><i><i><br>
</i></i></i></i>Every time you stop a school, you will have to build
a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like
feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br>
<i><i><i><i><br>
<a href="http://electjimkinney.org" target="_blank">http://electjimkinney.org</a><br>
<a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</i></i></i></i>
</div>
<pre><fieldset></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)
Ron Frazier
<a href="tel:770-205-9422" value="+17702059422" target="_blank">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT <a href="http://techstarship.com" target="_blank">techstarship.com</a>
Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU
</pre>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org" target="_blank">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-- <br>James P. Kinney III<br><i><i><i><i><br></i></i></i></i>Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br><i><i><i><i><br><a href="http://electjimkinney.org" target="_blank">http://electjimkinney.org</a><br><a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</i></i></i></i>
</div>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>