<p dir="ltr">The common point is the layer 1/2/3 connections to the CMTS. The two are separate nets and can be treated as such, just the same way as your next door neighbor's network is separate. Treat your router as your demarcation and you're good; never trust past the demarcation. </p>
<p dir="ltr">As I said, nothing changes. </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 12, 2013 10:15 AM, "Pete Hardie" <<a href="mailto:pete.hardie@gmail.com">pete.hardie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">So the "guest" wifi has no possible path to my network before the CMTS? If so, then all I'm gonna bitch about is the use of my electricity and congestion in my wifi space. But if the cable modem has any weak spot that would allow easier access to my internal net, then they've got some 'splainin to do.<br>
<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>Pete Hardie<br>--------<br>Better Living Through Bitmaps</div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Chris Ricker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris.ricker@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.ricker@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>No more so than they are for any other
public attack on one of your machines which reached you over their
wires. You are talking about two separate unbridged networks. The
first common point between them is the CMTS<div><div><br>
<br>
On 6/12/13 9:02 AM, Pete Hardie wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">So
if someone uses this free wifi access to hack one of my
machines, is Comcast liable?<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br clear="all">
<div>Pete Hardie<br>
--------<br>
Better Living Through Bitmaps</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Edward
Holcroft <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eholcroft@mkainc.com" target="_blank">eholcroft@mkainc.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">
<div class="gmail_default"><snip></div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default">Don't see how it would be
against the law. They're going to replace a<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">
device they own connected to a service they own with
another device</div>
<div class="gmail_default">they own connected to a
service they own?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">This may be true, but I
certainly felt my discomfort level rise when I saw
this article. Not so much on the threat level, but
more on the "Comcast are cheeky bastards" level. They
may own the device and the service, but they do not
own my house nor my electrical supply. The way Comcast
nickels and dimes one, I'd want to return the favor
and charge them an exorbitant rental for housing and
powering their public wifi device on private property.
I could throw in (without even asking them if they
want it) an unexpected $3.95 monthly fee for
preventative dusting of the device "to ensure maximum
operating efficiency". Or how about a fee to ensure
that their public wifi device is not tampered with,
since they are now effectively regarding people's
homes as public spaces, and you know, anything can go
wrong in a public space.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Actually, now that I think
about it, to heck with them on this one. I'd share my
wifi with the neighbors for free, but as long as it's
Comcast, or any private company behind it, they can
forget about profiting with my cooperation. I'm sure
this list can come up with multiple ways to make this
atrocious idea fail.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">ed</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at
9:45 PM, David Tomaschik <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:david@systemoverlord.com" target="_blank">david@systemoverlord.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Ron
Frazier (ALE)<br>
<<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> Hi guys,<br>
><br>
> I thought you'd like to know about this.
I heard the host on the Tech News<br>
> Today podcast ( <a href="http://twit.tv/tnt" target="_blank">http://twit.tv/tnt</a>
) say something similar to the following:<br>
> Comcast will be expanding its wifi
network by putting wifi gateways in<br>
> Xfinity users homes. ... Comcast users
will get free access. ... Guests get<br>
> two free accesses. ... If you don't want
to participate, you have to opt<br>
> out.<br>
><br>
</div>
<snip><br>
<div>><br>
> Supposedly, they replace your cable modem
with this new wifi gateway device.<br>
> It broadcasts two wifi signals. You log
into one of them and use YOUR<br>
> service as normal. Guests login into the
other, for free if they are<br>
> Comcast Xfinity customers, and get two
free accesses if they're not Xfinity<br>
> customers. SUPPOSEDLY, the 2nd
connection is independent of the main one,<br>
> and it doesn't reduce your bandwidth.
Yeah, I believe that. The APPARENT<br>
> plan is to replace all the gateways and
enable this internet sharing without<br>
> the customer's knowledge. That's got to
be against the law somehow.<br>
<br>
</div>
Don't see how it would be against the law.
They're going to replace a<br>
device they own connected to a service they own
with another device<br>
they own connected to a service they own?<br>
<div><br>
> Now, I know some people willingly share
their wifi. I'm not one of them. I<br>
> have my wfi encrypted with long ugly
passwords. There are 3 main reasons.<br>
> 1) Any other user on my modem is a
potential security risk.<br>
<br>
</div>
I don't know how they have implemented this, but
it would be trivial<br>
to assign a 2nd public IP (or even NAT through a
single<br>
neighborhood-wifi-network IP) for the 2nd
hotspot and route all<br>
traffic over that. In that case, a user
connected to that has the<br>
same amount of access as anyone else on the
internet.<br>
<div><br>
> 2) It does<br>
> reduce my bandwidth and performance.<br>
<br>
</div>
Citation needed. The biggest limitation to your
bandwidth is the<br>
traffic shaping comcast performs at their head
end unit. If the<br>
"public" hotspot is shaped separately, then I
don't see how it would<br>
impact your bandwidth. *Maybe* you could make
an argument regarding<br>
wifi interference, but a 2nd hotspot on your
device won't be any<br>
different from a 2nd device somewhere nearby.<br>
<div><br>
> 3) If someone else does something<br>
> illegal while connected to your wifi, the
police can ( and HAVE ) showed up<br>
> at your door and arrest you. You then
have to prove you didn't do it and<br>
> it's a royal mess.<br>
<br>
</div>
Actually, no, the prosecution still has to prove
you did it (at least,<br>
legally), but yes, I suppose it could cause some
headaches, unless<br>
they can look at wifi hotspot vs private
network. Not sure how that<br>
would work.<br>
<div><br>
> Regardless, no ISP should be able to
enable this type of access without the<br>
> user's knowledge and consent.<br>
<br>
</div>
On this, I agree. This should be with the
user's consent, but I don't<br>
see it as a big bad threat.<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
David Tomaschik<br>
OpenPGP: 0x5DEA789B<br>
<a href="http://systemoverlord.com" target="_blank">http://systemoverlord.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:david@systemoverlord.com" target="_blank">david@systemoverlord.com</a><br>
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<br clear="all">
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</div>
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