<p dir="ltr">To provide further clarification, everything in your region is the &quot;same&quot;  network. That&#39;s what is meant by the distinction between leased lines and commodity providers. Leased lines provide guaranteed bandwidth and performance because they are (a) synchronous and (b) private lines between you and the upstream network provider. </p>

<p dir="ltr">Commodity lines are shared, however, at the &quot;last mile&quot;. Cable lines are a broadcast medium like Ethernet, and time sharing/multiplexing of the medium is done both by frequency division and time division. This is why you are sold speed rated service in terms of peak possible, not minimum guaranteed. A side effect is that the broadcast network and it&#39;s adapter can not, as a whole, be trusted. </p>

<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 12, 2013 10:18 AM, &quot;Michael Trausch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mbt@naunetcorp.com">mbt@naunetcorp.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">The common point is the layer 1/2/3 connections to the CMTS. The two are separate nets and can be treated as such, just the same way as your next door neighbor&#39;s network is separate. Treat your router as your demarcation and you&#39;re good; never trust past the demarcation. </p>


<p dir="ltr">As I said, nothing changes. </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 12, 2013 10:15 AM, &quot;Pete Hardie&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pete.hardie@gmail.com" target="_blank">pete.hardie@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">So the &quot;guest&quot; wifi has no possible path to my network before the CMTS?  If so, then all I&#39;m gonna bitch about is the use of my electricity and congestion in my wifi space.  But if the cable modem has any weak spot that would allow easier access to my internal net, then they&#39;ve got some &#39;splainin to do.<br>



<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>Pete Hardie<br>--------<br>Better Living Through Bitmaps</div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Chris Ricker <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:chris.ricker@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.ricker@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <div>No more so than they are for any other
      public attack on one of your machines which reached you over their
      wires. You are talking about two separate unbridged networks. The
      first common point between them is the CMTS<div><div><br>
      <br>
      On 6/12/13 9:02 AM, Pete Hardie wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div><div><div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">So
          if someone uses this free wifi access to hack one of my
          machines, is Comcast liable?<br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <br clear="all">
        <div>Pete Hardie<br>
          --------<br>
          Better Living Through Bitmaps</div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Edward
          Holcroft <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:eholcroft@mkainc.com" target="_blank">eholcroft@mkainc.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div class="gmail_default">
                <div class="gmail_default">&lt;snip&gt;</div>
                <div>
                  <div class="gmail_default">Don&#39;t see how it would be
                    against the law.  They&#39;re going to replace a<br>
                  </div>
                  <div class="gmail_default">
                    device they own connected to a service they own with
                    another device</div>
                  <div class="gmail_default">they own connected to a
                    service they own?</div>
                  <div class="gmail_default"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div class="gmail_default">
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default">This may be true, but I
                  certainly felt my discomfort level rise when I saw
                  this article. Not so much on the threat level, but
                  more on the &quot;Comcast are cheeky bastards&quot; level. They
                  may own the device and the service, but they do not
                  own my house nor my electrical supply. The way Comcast
                  nickels and dimes one, I&#39;d want to return the favor
                  and charge them an exorbitant rental for housing and
                  powering their public wifi device on private property.
                  I could throw in (without even asking them if they
                  want it) an unexpected $3.95 monthly fee for
                  preventative dusting of the device &quot;to ensure maximum
                  operating efficiency&quot;. Or how about a fee to ensure
                  that their public wifi device is not tampered with,
                  since they are now effectively regarding people&#39;s
                  homes as public spaces, and you know, anything can go
                  wrong in a public space.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default">Actually, now that I think
                  about it, to heck with them on this one. I&#39;d share my
                  wifi with the neighbors for free, but as long as it&#39;s
                  Comcast, or any private company behind it, they can
                  forget about profiting with my cooperation. I&#39;m sure
                  this list can come up with multiple ways to make this
                  atrocious idea fail.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default">ed</div>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_extra">
                <div>
                  <div><br>
                    <br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at
                      9:45 PM, David Tomaschik <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:david@systemoverlord.com" target="_blank">david@systemoverlord.com</a>&gt;</span>
                      wrote:<br>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Ron
                          Frazier (ALE)<br>
                          &lt;<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                          &gt; Hi guys,<br>
                          &gt;<br>
                          &gt; I thought you&#39;d like to know about this.
                           I heard the host on the Tech News<br>
                          &gt; Today podcast ( <a href="http://twit.tv/tnt" target="_blank">http://twit.tv/tnt</a>
                          ) say something similar to the following:<br>
                          &gt; Comcast will be expanding its wifi
                          network by putting wifi gateways in<br>
                          &gt; Xfinity users homes. ... Comcast users
                          will get free access. ... Guests get<br>
                          &gt; two free accesses. ... If you don&#39;t want
                          to participate, you have to opt<br>
                          &gt; out.<br>
                          &gt;<br>
                        </div>
                        &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                        <div>&gt;<br>
                          &gt; Supposedly, they replace your cable modem
                          with this new wifi gateway device.<br>
                          &gt; It broadcasts two wifi signals.  You log
                          into one of them and use YOUR<br>
                          &gt; service as normal.  Guests login into the
                          other, for free if they are<br>
                          &gt; Comcast Xfinity customers, and get two
                          free accesses if they&#39;re not Xfinity<br>
                          &gt; customers.  SUPPOSEDLY, the 2nd
                          connection is independent of the main one,<br>
                          &gt; and it doesn&#39;t reduce your bandwidth.
                           Yeah, I believe that.  The APPARENT<br>
                          &gt; plan is to replace all the gateways and
                          enable this internet sharing without<br>
                          &gt; the customer&#39;s knowledge.  That&#39;s got to
                          be against the law somehow.<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        Don&#39;t see how it would be against the law.
                         They&#39;re going to replace a<br>
                        device they own connected to a service they own
                        with another device<br>
                        they own connected to a service they own?<br>
                        <div><br>
                          &gt; Now, I know some people willingly share
                          their wifi.  I&#39;m not one of them.  I<br>
                          &gt; have my wfi encrypted with long ugly
                          passwords.  There are 3 main reasons.<br>
                          &gt; 1) Any other user on my modem is a
                          potential security risk.<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        I don&#39;t know how they have implemented this, but
                        it would be trivial<br>
                        to assign a 2nd public IP (or even NAT through a
                        single<br>
                        neighborhood-wifi-network IP) for the 2nd
                        hotspot and route all<br>
                        traffic over that.  In that case, a user
                        connected to that has the<br>
                        same amount of access as anyone else on the
                        internet.<br>
                        <div><br>
                          &gt; 2) It does<br>
                          &gt; reduce my bandwidth and performance.<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        Citation needed.  The biggest limitation to your
                        bandwidth is the<br>
                        traffic shaping comcast performs at their head
                        end unit.  If the<br>
                        &quot;public&quot; hotspot is shaped separately, then I
                        don&#39;t see how it would<br>
                        impact your bandwidth.  *Maybe* you could make
                        an argument regarding<br>
                        wifi interference, but a 2nd hotspot on your
                        device won&#39;t be any<br>
                        different from a 2nd device somewhere nearby.<br>
                        <div><br>
                          &gt; 3)  If someone else does something<br>
                          &gt; illegal while connected to your wifi, the
                          police can ( and HAVE ) showed up<br>
                          &gt; at your door and arrest you.  You then
                          have to prove you didn&#39;t do it and<br>
                          &gt; it&#39;s a royal mess.<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        Actually, no, the prosecution still has to prove
                        you did it (at least,<br>
                        legally), but yes, I suppose it could cause some
                        headaches, unless<br>
                        they can look at wifi hotspot vs private
                        network.  Not sure how that<br>
                        would work.<br>
                        <div><br>
                          &gt; Regardless, no ISP should be able to
                          enable this type of access without the<br>
                          &gt; user&#39;s knowledge and consent.<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        On this, I agree.  This should be with the
                        user&#39;s consent, but I don&#39;t<br>
                        see it as a big bad threat.<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        --<br>
                        David Tomaschik<br>
                        OpenPGP: 0x5DEA789B<br>
                        <a href="http://systemoverlord.com" target="_blank">http://systemoverlord.com</a><br>
                        <a href="mailto:david@systemoverlord.com" target="_blank">david@systemoverlord.com</a><br>
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                    <br>
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                    <div><br>
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                <span><font color="#888888">-- <br>
                    <div dir="ltr">Edward Holcroft | Madsen Kneppers
                      &amp; Associates Inc.<br>
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