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Hi Scott,<br>
<br>
On 3/27/2013 12:38 PM, Scott Plante wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1336070121.1306.1364402320450.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com"
type="cite">
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<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Well,
it's true that Java code is more verbose than Ruby or other scripting
languages, although a lot of syntactic sugar has been added in the last
few version, and Java 8 moves closer again. You can also get that using
Groovy, which is a scripting language based on Java--it will actually
compile any Java code as is, but also allows much more succinct syntax
and many shortcuts. I actually have no idea what you (they?) mean about
the object model being hard to follow, but at this point maybe it's
just hard to put myself in the position of someone just trying to learn
OO programming for the first time.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But hey, I'm really not trying to get you to study Java or
Groovy or anything else! I promise. I'm just trying to clarify some
things.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I always appreciate the information that I learn here. When my
professional programming duties ended (around 1995), I was programming
Clipper on DOS. I never had the opportunity to learn OO. I did tinker
with a little bit of event driven Windows programming with Delphi, but
not to a large extent. Obviously, much has changed in those (gulp) 18
years.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1336070121.1306.1364402320450.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com"
type="cite">
<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>So long as you don't have the Java plugin running in your
browser, you don't need to uninstall Java completely. Java applications
from your repository are no less secure than any other software from
your repository. The recommendations to remove Java are just meant to
make it as simple as possible for your typical unsophisticated user,
not because it's really more secure. The Java control panel now has a
handy checkbox, "Enable Java content in the browser". You can go to
java.com and click "Do I have Java?" to see if it really worked.<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I've heard / read of various ways you can disconnect Java from the
browser. I still don't feel too comfortable with it. I have a fear
that routine updates will re enable it without me knowing it. I've had
some anomalous experiences in the past with both Adobe and Java
configuration changing during routine updates, even though that
shouldn't change the settings. I might have to do more research on it.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1336070121.1306.1364402320450.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com"
type="cite">
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style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
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<hr id="zwchr">
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From:
</b>"Ron Frazier (ALE)" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com"><atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><ale@ale.org></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:29:19 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [ale] semi [OT] making learning ruby programming
fun?<br>
<br>
Hi Scott,<br>
<br>
I understand what you're saying. Heck, if someone wants to pay me to
learn it, then I will. At the moment, though, I've uninstalled Java on
all my Windows machines and am trying to figure out how to do so in
Linux because of the security risks of having it on my system. If I
have to learn it, or use it, I might have to do so in a purpose built
VM.<br>
<br>
I have heard that the Java syntax is more obtuse and verbose and that
the object model is harder to follow than some others. I get the
impression that you have to type a whole lot more and it's a lot more
cryptic to get something done, versus, say, Go or Ruby. That's just
from memory and I cannot remember the source. There may have been
multiple sources. But, I don't have any personal experience with it.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Scott Plante <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:splante@insightsys.com"><splante@insightsys.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
>There are probably some good reasons not to pick Java as the modern<br>
>language you want to learn, but "security problems" is not one of
them.<br>
>There have been several security holes found lately, but they
relate to<br>
>running un-trusted Java in the browser. Almost all the Java jobs<br>
>revolve around writing Java on the server, and practically all the
rest<br>
>are Java applications on the desktop or as a trusted applet or<br>
>browser-launched application. <br>
><br>
><br>
>It's a very hard problem to allow random, un-trusted code to run on<br>
>your computer and yet prevent it from doing any harm. It's a bit
easier<br>
>if you have an extremely limited language that doesn't do much
anyway.<br>
>They're constantly finding security holes in JavaScript, Flash, and<br>
>ActiveX, too. That's not meant to be an excuse and vendors do try to<br>
>fix holes as quickly as possible, with differing levels of
competency .<br>
>Also, these holes weren't in "Java" per se, but in the Oracle JVM.
Some<br>
>of them might also have been in, say, the IBM JVM or JRocket JVM
since<br>
>there is code sharing between projects. But they were probably not
in<br>
>Google's Dalvik JVM (since they don't do applets), even though for<br>
>Android you write in the Java language (more or less). <br>
><br>
><br>
>In a recent security contest, participants found holes inthe major<br>
>browsers, including Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari and Java and Win
7/8.<br>
>Chrome OS did relatively well with only a "partial" exploit. It's
not<br>
>so much that Java is less secure than JavaScript, it's just that you<br>
>can do general browsing these days without Java, but you can't do<br>
>without JavaScript. <br>
><br>
><br>
>But all these security holes, in a sense, exist in spades for PHP,
C,<br>
>C++, etc., because they're not even trying to limit what your code
can<br>
>do. In other words, if the OS allows your user to overwrite a file
with<br>
>a regular program (not an unsigned applet) written in Java, you can<br>
>also overwrite that file with C, PHP, Ruby, Python, Perl, etc. But<br>
>they're not security "holes" because the language (including Java)
is<br>
>making no guarantees in that case. But avoiding Java on the
server-side<br>
>because of unsigned applet security holes is like choosing a sedan
for<br>
>highway driving over a crossover, because the crossover gets stuck
in<br>
>the mud more than a Hummer. <br>
><br>
><br>
>Scott <br>
><br>
>----- Original Message -----<br>
><br>
>From: "Ron Frazier (ALE)" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com"><atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com></a>
<br>
>To: "ALE" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><ale@ale.org></a> <br>
>Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:39:11 AM <br>
>Subject: [ale] semi [OT] making learning ruby programming fun? <br>
><br>
>Hi all, <br>
><br>
>As some of you know who've been following my prior threads, I've
had a<br>
>long time interest in learning a modern programming language. I've
had<br>
>difficulty putting the proper time into the studies, but I'm always<br>
>genuinely interested in the information I learn here. Leam had<br>
>convinced me that GO was a great language, and I believe it is. I
was<br>
>going to tackle that, but I have misgivings about its lack of<br>
>popularity in the market place. <br>
><br>
>According to: <br>
><br>
><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html">http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html</a> <br>
><br>
>GO ranks between 51 and 100 in usage, and the percentage is so low
it's<br>
>not listed. So, like it or not, learning GO might be a skill few
people<br>
>want. I decided to defer that. <br>
><br>
>Most recently, I decided to learn the specific language of the<br>
>MetaTrader currency trading platform so I can build a tradebot. I am<br>
>working on that slowly. Unless I get really good, it is unlikely<br>
>someone will hire me for that. The objective would be for the
tradebot<br>
>to make money using my own account. <br>
><br>
>So, I still have an interest in learning a general programming<br>
>language. <br>
><br>
>I'm interested in a modern garbage collected language, preferably
multi<br>
>paradigm, with safe I/O and system calls, that can be compiled, and<br>
>that doesn't care about white space. <br>
><br>
>See this comparison: <br>
><br>
><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages</a> <br>
><br>
>I've chosen Ruby as my project language. <br>
><br>
>According to the link posted above, the top 10 languages, and some
of<br>
>the reasons I've rejected some of them, are as follows. No offense
is<br>
>intended to anyone that programs in these languages. <br>
><br>
>01) Java - security problems <br>
><br>
>02) C - not modern garbage collected <br>
><br>
>03) Objective C - Apple centric primarily <br>
><br>
>04) C++ - not modern garbage collected <br>
><br>
>05) C# - MS centric primarily <br>
><br>
>------------ <br>
><br>
>06) PHP - security problems <br>
>per <br>
><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php</a> <br>
>"About 30% of all vulnerabilities listed on the National
Vulnerability<br>
>Database are linked to PHP." <br>
><br>
>07) VB - MS centric <br>
><br>
>08) Python - cares about white space <br>
><br>
>09) Ruby - This is my choice. <br>
><br>
>10) Perl - does not have safe I/O and system calls <br>
>per <br>
><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages</a> <br>
><br>
>------------- <br>
><br>
>So, having said all that, I have some Ruby questions. <br>
><br>
>A) I have the "PickAxe" book on Ruby 1.9 by Dave Thomas. Is that a
good<br>
>resource for learning, or do I need to upgrade to a Ruby 2.0 book
now<br>
>that version 2 is out? <br>
><br>
>B) Does anyone have any experience compiling Ruby either through<br>
>Rubinius or JRuby or otherwise? <br>
><br>
>See
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://patshaughnessy.net/2012/2/15/is-ruby-interpreted-or-compiled">http://patshaughnessy.net/2012/2/15/is-ruby-interpreted-or-compiled</a><br>
><br>
><br>
>Finally, I've observed that reading one of these programming books
is<br>
>about as much fun as reading the US tax code. You get a thousand
little<br>
>examples of things like using for next loops to do a factorial. Now<br>
>that's exciting. I've seen maybe 1 of 100 books, primarily from
Deitel<br>
>and Deitel or the Head First series, that make learning programming<br>
>fun. They present you with real world applications, simplified, that<br>
>are interesting. They let you get something you can interact with on<br>
>the screen quickly and work on learning how it works and tweaking
it.<br>
>For example, a simulator of an ATM machine. An actual working
realistic<br>
>program. <br>
><br>
>C) So, does ANYONE know of a Ruby book that would make learning the<br>
>language FUN, or at least moderately interesting? <br>
><br>
>As always, any help is appreciated. <br>
><br>
>Sincerely, <br>
><br>
>Ron <br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>-- <br>
><br>
>Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
K-9<br>
>Mail. <br>
>Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch
screen. <br>
><br>
>(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might
want to<br>
><br>
>call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
energy<br>
><br>
>mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very<br>
>quickly.) <br>
><br>
>Ron Frazier <br>
>770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message. <br>
>linuxdude AT techstarship.com <br>
><br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________ <br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
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<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9
Mail.<br>
Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.<br>
<br>
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to<br>
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy<br>
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very
quickly.)<br>
<br>
Ron Frazier<br>
770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.<br>
linuxdude AT techstarship.com<br>
<br>
<br>
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</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
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Ale mailing list
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)
Ron Frazier
770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT techstarship.com
</pre>
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