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Hi Allan,<br>
<br>
Thanks for that link. I'll probably use that as well once I get into
it a bit. Looks very cool. I found the Emerald City meetup online and
am considering coming over there. It looks like you guys are into the
9th session on rails or something, so I may have to wait until you get
into introductory material again to understand much of it.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
On 3/27/2013 11:35 AM, Allan Davis wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+ZKgoe1U+QTvVYhyFbFqJXjHbTEhmH44FuEuxK101C2=EJ9Hw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">One of the tools Alan Hecht and I use when we teach
ruby at Emerald City is the Ruby Koans(<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rubykoans.com/">http://rubykoans.com/</a>). This is Test
Driven Learning, which means it's a set of unit test that work you
through learning ruby.
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">Thanks,</div>
<div style="">Allan Davis </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Doug Hall <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:doughalldev@gmail.com" target="_blank">doughalldev@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">I love Ruby. Ruby's creator's motivation was to
write a language that make people happy using it. You may not get paid
a lot of money for Ruby, but take it from a former Oracle DBA, the
people who get paid a lot of money for maintaining Oracle, is because
nobody with a creative brain would enjoy such monotony, and such a
feeling of helplessness. Once you go ORACLE, you have to go ORACLE all
the way. Reading their documentation is like Alice in Wonderland. Once
you go down the rabbit hole, it's difficult to get out.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But Python is also a good language. I agree with Charles that
whitespace should not be a deal breaker. Also, programming GUIs with
Python is a bit easier and more flexible. Both languages have lots of
good libraries.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Doug</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:21 AM, Charles
Shapiro <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com" target="_blank">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>My $0.02: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby ( <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/" target="_blank">http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/</a>
). One of the more unusual language textbooks you will encounter.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>btw I enjoy C, C++, Python, SQL, shell, and several other
languages about equally. I dunno why Python's caring about whitespace
is a deal-breaker for Mr. Frazier.<br>
<br>
</div>
-- CHS<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Ron
Frazier (ALE) <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hi
Scott,<br>
<br>
I understand what you're saying. Heck, if someone wants to pay me to
learn it, then I will. At the moment, though, I've uninstalled Java on
all my Windows machines and am trying to figure out how to do so in
Linux because of the security risks of having it on my system. If I
have to learn it, or use it, I might have to do so in a purpose built
VM.<br>
<br>
I have heard that the Java syntax is more obtuse and verbose and that
the object model is harder to follow than some others. I get the
impression that you have to type a whole lot more and it's a lot more
cryptic to get something done, versus, say, Go or Ruby. That's just
from memory and I cannot remember the source. There may have been
multiple sources. But, I don't have any personal experience with it.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
Scott Plante <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:splante@insightsys.com" target="_blank">splante@insightsys.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
>There are probably some good reasons not to pick Java as the modern<br>
>language you want to learn, but "security problems" is not one of
them.<br>
>There have been several security holes found lately, but they
relate to<br>
>running un-trusted Java in the browser. Almost all the Java jobs<br>
>revolve around writing Java on the server, and practically all the
rest<br>
>are Java applications on the desktop or as a trusted applet or<br>
>browser-launched application.<br>
><br>
><br>
>It's a very hard problem to allow random, un-trusted code to run on<br>
>your computer and yet prevent it from doing any harm. It's a bit
easier<br>
>if you have an extremely limited language that doesn't do much
anyway.<br>
>They're constantly finding security holes in JavaScript, Flash, and<br>
>ActiveX, too. That's not meant to be an excuse and vendors do try to<br>
>fix holes as quickly as possible, with differing levels of
competency .<br>
>Also, these holes weren't in "Java" per se, but in the Oracle JVM.
Some<br>
>of them might also have been in, say, the IBM JVM or JRocket JVM
since<br>
>there is code sharing between projects. But they were probably not
in<br>
>Google's Dalvik JVM (since they don't do applets), even though for<br>
>Android you write in the Java language (more or less).<br>
><br>
><br>
>In a recent security contest, participants found holes inthe major<br>
>browsers, including Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari and Java and Win
7/8.<br>
>Chrome OS did relatively well with only a "partial" exploit. It's
not<br>
>so much that Java is less secure than JavaScript, it's just that you<br>
>can do general browsing these days without Java, but you can't do<br>
>without JavaScript.<br>
><br>
><br>
>But all these security holes, in a sense, exist in spades for PHP,
C,<br>
>C++, etc., because they're not even trying to limit what your code
can<br>
>do. In other words, if the OS allows your user to overwrite a file
with<br>
>a regular program (not an unsigned applet) written in Java, you can<br>
>also overwrite that file with C, PHP, Ruby, Python, Perl, etc. But<br>
>they're not security "holes" because the language (including Java)
is<br>
>making no guarantees in that case. But avoiding Java on the
server-side<br>
>because of unsigned applet security holes is like choosing a sedan
for<br>
>highway driving over a crossover, because the crossover gets stuck
in<br>
>the mud more than a Hummer.<br>
><br>
><br>
>Scott<br>
><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>>----- Original Message -----<br>
><br>
>From: "Ron Frazier (ALE)" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com" target="_blank">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>><br>
>To: "ALE" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ale@ale.org"
target="_blank">ale@ale.org</a>><br>
>Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:39:11 AM<br>
>Subject: [ale] semi [OT] making learning ruby programming fun?<br>
><br>
>Hi all,<br>
><br>
>As some of you know who've been following my prior threads, I've
had a<br>
>long time interest in learning a modern programming language. I've
had<br>
>difficulty putting the proper time into the studies, but I'm always<br>
>genuinely interested in the information I learn here. Leam had<br>
>convinced me that GO was a great language, and I believe it is. I
was<br>
>going to tackle that, but I have misgivings about its lack of<br>
>popularity in the market place.<br>
><br>
>According to:<br>
><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html"
target="_blank">http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html</a><br>
><br>
>GO ranks between 51 and 100 in usage, and the percentage is so low
it's<br>
>not listed. So, like it or not, learning GO might be a skill few
people<br>
>want. I decided to defer that.<br>
><br>
>Most recently, I decided to learn the specific language of the<br>
>MetaTrader currency trading platform so I can build a tradebot. I am<br>
>working on that slowly. Unless I get really good, it is unlikely<br>
>someone will hire me for that. The objective would be for the
tradebot<br>
>to make money using my own account.<br>
><br>
>So, I still have an interest in learning a general programming<br>
>language.<br>
><br>
>I'm interested in a modern garbage collected language, preferably
multi<br>
>paradigm, with safe I/O and system calls, that can be compiled, and<br>
>that doesn't care about white space.<br>
><br>
>See this comparison:<br>
><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages</a><br>
><br>
>I've chosen Ruby as my project language.<br>
><br>
>According to the link posted above, the top 10 languages, and some
of<br>
>the reasons I've rejected some of them, are as follows. No offense
is<br>
>intended to anyone that programs in these languages.<br>
><br>
>01) Java - security problems<br>
><br>
>02) C - not modern garbage collected<br>
><br>
>03) Objective C - Apple centric primarily<br>
><br>
>04) C++ - not modern garbage collected<br>
><br>
>05) C# - MS centric primarily<br>
><br>
>------------<br>
><br>
>06) PHP - security problems<br>
>per<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php</a><br>
>"About 30% of all vulnerabilities listed on the National
Vulnerability<br>
>Database are linked to PHP."<br>
><br>
>07) VB - MS centric<br>
><br>
>08) Python - cares about white space<br>
><br>
>09) Ruby - This is my choice.<br>
><br>
>10) Perl - does not have safe I/O and system calls<br>
>per<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages</a><br>
><br>
>-------------<br>
><br>
>So, having said all that, I have some Ruby questions.<br>
><br>
>A) I have the "PickAxe" book on Ruby 1.9 by Dave Thomas. Is that a
good<br>
>resource for learning, or do I need to upgrade to a Ruby 2.0 book
now<br>
>that version 2 is out?<br>
><br>
>B) Does anyone have any experience compiling Ruby either through<br>
>Rubinius or JRuby or otherwise?<br>
><br>
>See <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://patshaughnessy.net/2012/2/15/is-ruby-interpreted-or-compiled"
target="_blank">http://patshaughnessy.net/2012/2/15/is-ruby-interpreted-or-compiled</a><br>
><br>
><br>
>Finally, I've observed that reading one of these programming books
is<br>
>about as much fun as reading the US tax code. You get a thousand
little<br>
>examples of things like using for next loops to do a factorial. Now<br>
>that's exciting. I've seen maybe 1 of 100 books, primarily from
Deitel<br>
>and Deitel or the Head First series, that make learning programming<br>
>fun. They present you with real world applications, simplified, that<br>
>are interesting. They let you get something you can interact with on<br>
>the screen quickly and work on learning how it works and tweaking
it.<br>
>For example, a simulator of an ATM machine. An actual working
realistic<br>
>program.<br>
><br>
>C) So, does ANYONE know of a Ruby book that would make learning the<br>
>language FUN, or at least moderately interesting?<br>
><br>
>As always, any help is appreciated.<br>
><br>
>Sincerely,<br>
><br>
>Ron<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>--<br>
><br>
>Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
K-9<br>
>Mail.<br>
>Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch
screen.<br>
><br>
>(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might
want to<br>
><br>
>call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
energy<br>
><br>
>mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very<br>
>quickly.)<br>
><br>
>Ron Frazier<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:770-205-9422"
value="+17702059422" target="_blank">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a
message.<br>
>linuxdude AT <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://techstarship.com" target="_blank">techstarship.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<div>
<div>><br>
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<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9
Mail.<br>
Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.<br>
<br>
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to<br>
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy<br>
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very
quickly.)<br>
<br>
Ron Frazier<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:770-205-9422"
value="+17702059422" target="_blank">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a
message.<br>
linuxdude AT <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://techstarship.com"
target="_blank">techstarship.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
_______________________
<div>Allan Davis</div>
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<pre wrap="">
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)
Ron Frazier
770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT techstarship.com
</pre>
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