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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But but but
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I was not asking how to research it . I was asking others if they’ve made such a transition and what resources they used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why bother to answer “google is your friend” in a forum as the only answer? Doesn’t that defeat the point of the forum in the first place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Also I again note that I specifically stated I wasn’t asking for a “Google” response which should lead people to understand that I already know it is there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Finally I note that I stated this was a question I was asking to help point a friend to resources. Does anyone seriously think I hadn’t already told him
that Google was his friend and that if he looked for “php” and “tutorial” in a search he might not find resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nobody was born knowing everything and forum responses that seem to imply that questions are annoyance rather than the PURPOSE of the forum have always made
me wonder what kind of mentality would sign up for a forum just to show how annoyed the question makes them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What really gets me is that the ALE list will go on for days on end about ham radio, tax regulations or how to make apple pie but give little or no help on
actual technology questions related to Linux.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> ale-bounces@ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Kinney<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 08, 2013 12:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ale] asp user learning php?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Lightner, Jeff <<a href="mailto:JLightner@water.com" target="_blank">JLightner@water.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Not only did neither of you answer the question as asked you ignored part of what I wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">“I’m not asking for someone to Google for this – I’m asking people that<br>
know both ways of doing things what resources they’d recommend.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I really wish everyone would actually read entire posts before responding with the assumption that
the poster has never heard of Google.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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But, but, but<br>
<br>
<br>
at least 60% of the ALE posts could be answered through a decent Google search. The rest are mostly "what do you think of this <strange configuration I'm setting up without reading Google first>". Occasionally someone posts a politically hot topic and gets
a few days of crap out of people. And I no longer pay any attention to those unless it's getting nasty and I think it needs to cool down.<br>
<br>
<br>
PHP and ASP are totally different philosophies of reaching the same end goal. There are no shortcuts. Just jump in and do it. For happy syntax coloring, any modern version of vim, emacs will do it from cli. Want a gui? Look at bluefish. It's specifically for
web coding.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Borgmann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 08, 2013 9:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ale] asp user learning php?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">To second what John has said, I'd say the same thing. PHP was the first thing I learned (beyond HTML and CSS) and other than some JavaSript / AJAX - still really the only thing
I know 8 years later because I certainly haven't lacked employment since getting good at it. But I taught it all to myself using Google, examples from other projects, and specific questions. I too just use a Text Editor (TextWrangler - great FTP integration).
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The nice thing is that he has a good understanding of programming so what I would suggest him to do is think of how he would do it in ASP and then Google the question in PHP. He'll
catch on real, real quick. So for example, he might know how to do a WHILE loop, or a MsSQL select statement in ASP and I would just Google "while loop in php" or "MySQL select in PHP" and he'll learn a lot better that way. PHP.net is a great resource and
really well documented. In addition StackOverflow is a great place for answers. But I never go to either of them directly, just via Google.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don't know if ASP is object-oriented or procedural - but no matter what his background he should have a good foundation to transfer it over with the right questions and Google.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>--</b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>Andy Borgmann</b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">E-mail:
<a href="mailto:andy@borgmann.me" target="_blank"><span style="color:#990000">andy@borgmann.me</span></a> <br>
Cell Phone: <span style="color:#990000"><a href="tel:%28404%29%20492-6527" target="_blank">(404) 492-6527</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Personal Website:
<a href="http://andy.borgmann.me/?r=email" target="_blank"><span style="color:#990000">http://andy.borgmann.me/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
"<i>Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, <br>
rebuke and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction.</i>" - 2Timothy 4:2<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 9:06 AM, John Heim <<a href="mailto:john@johnheim.net" target="_blank">john@johnheim.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
Well, at the risk of committing the sin of not answering the question, if it was my friend, I'd tell him to just google it. That's all I did when I switched from ASP to php and I'm blind. I would think someone with vision would find it even easier to learn
by studying examples on-line. I don't think finding a book is going to make it any easier, just more tedious.<br>
<br>
I don't have any advice wrt integrated development environment. I only wish I did. I do all my coding in TexpPad, a plain old text editor. But I haven't found an IDE that works well with a screen reader. If I had a lot of money I'd just keep buying them until
I found one that works. About 5 years ago, I spent about $100 on 3 different ones and couldn't figure any of them out.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
On 3/8/2013 7:19 AM, Lightner, Jeff wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">I have a friend that does web design using asp that wants to start going<br>
the open source route.<br>
<br>
He specifically asked me about learning php and I have loaned him an<br>
O’Reilly book that talks about php, MySQL and one other thing as well as<br>
my Apache book. I had those but really don’t do web design myself.<br>
<br>
Are there any good recommendations for what to look at to get up to<br>
speed on php if one is used to asp?<br>
<br>
Specifically he’d asked me if there is a design environment like that<br>
for asp so he doesn’t have to do everything in text editors. Since I’m<br>
not familiar with asp I’m not sure what environment he is speaking of<br>
but thought someone on this list might.<br>
<br>
I’m not asking for someone to Google for this – I’m asking people that<br>
know both ways of doing things what resources they’d recommend.<br>
<br>
Athena®, Created for the Cause™<br>
<br>
Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">*How and Why I Should Support Bottled Water!<br>
*Do not relinquish your right to choose bottled water as a healthy<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
alternative to beverages that contain sugar, calories, etc. Your support<br>
of bottled water will make a difference! Your signatures count! Go to<br>
<a href="http://www.bottledwatermatters.org/luv-bottledwater-iframe/dswaters" target="_blank">http://www.bottledwatermatters.org/luv-bottledwater-iframe/dswaters</a> and<br>
sign a petition to support your right to always choose bottled water.<br>
Help fight federal and state issues, such as bottle deposits (or taxes)<br>
and organizations that want to ban the sale of bottled water. Support<br>
community curbside recycling programs. Support bottled water as a<br>
healthy way to maintain proper hydration. Our goal is 50,000 signatures.<br>
Share this petition with your friends and family today!<br>
<br>
---------------------------------<br>
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or<br>
confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended<br>
recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,<br>
copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is<br>
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have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you.<br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
-- <br>
James P. Kinney III<br>
<i><br>
</i>Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br>
<i><br>
<a href="http://electjimkinney.org" target="_blank">http://electjimkinney.org</a><br>
<a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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