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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/07/2013 10:26 AM, Chesser.Damon
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So,
like a PA vs a Dr. I would not be opposed to that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Damon@damtek.com">Damon@damtek.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Essentially, yes.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:F1E3980DB8AB9946A64830BE610239A031441F13@GA016E0MB02.corp.suntrust.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org">ale-bounces@ale.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org">mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Pilman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 07, 2013 9:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ale] a quick test of web site stupid<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Damon, I know that talk of registration
can lead to that kind of apprehension, but that is not the
way professional registration works. In my engineering
office of 25 highly qualified and very productive people,
only one is a registered engineer in Georgia (not me).
Similarly, most medical treatment is carried out by people
who are not board certified doctors. Whatever else
professional registration does, it will not remove you from
your job. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">...John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:44 AM,
Chesser.Damon <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Damon.Chesser@suntrust.com" target="_blank">Damon.Chesser@suntrust.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
find the idea of REQUIRING by law, a certain level
of proficiency as determined by minimal educational
standards and test results abhorrent. I hold no
degree. I do the work. 100% self educated. You
just legislated me to the unemployment line. Just
what we need, MORE government layers to comply with.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">How
about this, if business A is stupid and hires stupid
people and has a security breach, all those
customers can move to business B which was not
stupid. Business A has self regulated themselves
out of the market or self regulated themselves out
of stupid.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Damon@damtek.com" target="_blank">Damon@damtek.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"
target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"
target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Lozier<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 06, 2013 6:06 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ale@ale.org" target="_blank">ale@ale.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ale] a quick test of web
site stupid<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
03/06/2013 04:44 PM, Jim Kinney wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Matt Hessel <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matt.hessel@gmail.com"
target="_blank">matt.hessel@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I see the idea behind the certification, but
in practice that seems mostly useful to
employers when hiring individuals with little
on their resume.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">This
is different than a certification because there
would be design/development standards required
that are vendor independent.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It's
not for employers. It's for lawyers and judges
to use as a bludgeon to make companies use
good practices is coding for public
consumption. If company FOO is in software
development, and they provide code for
banking, they MUST have a certified banking
code engineer on staff and sign off on the
code or else that code is not legal to use for
banking. Or they can pay a banking code
engineering firm to evaluate their code and
sign off if it suits the engineers standards.<br>
<br>
If mom-n-pop company hires a developer to put
up a web site, they don't need a certified
engineer to approve anything UNTIL they add
something like shopping site with credit card
stuff. If their website gets defaced because
they hired an idiot, that's their problem. If
their website gets hacked and credit card data
is stolen, then it's a criminal offense on
them for deploying code that was not approved
by a professional engineer. I see drop-in
certified modules for various platforms to do
this.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">This
would help PHB inline; just tell them they will
have an all expense paid multi-year vacation in
the prison system.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
I can't build a bridge for public use until I
am a certified, tested and passed Professional
Engineer. As a PE, it's MY name on the line
for the stuff I sign off on. So a PE won't
approve crap. Is it a perfect system? Nope.
But it keeps slick talking idiots from
building bridges and practicing law and
medicine.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">Legally,
there are slick idiots who manage to fool people
from time to time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
A person who passes a PE exam doesn't need
much else on their resume. It's not possible
to pass without mountains of knowledge and/or
experience. There is already a Professional
Software Engineer license process. What is
needed is to add HIPPA and Banking modules (or
more generically - data security) and then
require that places that use software in these
fields have X years to be using certified,
compliant software or they get shut down,
fined out the ass or both for repeated
violations. "Market forces" can't fix this
crap. It's like why we all drive on the right
hand side of the road. Someone decided we have
to clean up the mess and made it happen.<br>
<br>
like i need another project....<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">Being
from another engineering field you need the PE to
review and sign off on the design. Also, for a PE
it is a multi-step process of tests and
experience. I believe there is an education
requirement that you must have a physical science
or engineering (BS level or higher) to be allowed
to take any exam. You must pass the EIT -
Engineer-in-Training exam for a specific
engineering discipline (Civil, Chemical,
Electrical, etc), then you must work in the field
for several years before you can even take the PE
exam in the same field. I believe there are
continuing education requirements for a PE
license.<br>
<br>
What I have seen is the PE requires the vendor to
submit all design/load calculations for review
with the drawings and documentation. The PE must
approve the submission before you have permission
to proceed; there might be a couple of rounds of
submissions before approval. Competent vendors
know what is needed and often will only have the
finalize the details for the submission.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Jay Lozier<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com" target="_blank">jslozier@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Jay Lozier
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jslozier@gmail.com">jslozier@gmail.com</a></pre>
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