I have 2 cars here. 05 Honda Civic LX 1.7L auto. Has trailer hitch<br>05 Honda accord EX V6 auto. Has a trailer hitch. They are handy to have around. Best example is Dad one time bought a new door for the house. I went to uhaul and rented a $15 trailer, vs paying $100 for delivery. <br>
The civic gets about 34mpg. If I clean the engine and go highway at 60mph I can get 38. The accord gets about 28mpg. The best I have done is 35mpg. Which isn't bad. I love the V6 though. Has the power to get you out of stupid situation. <br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Jim Kinney <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Maybe it's just me but it seems like all of the data about uneven tire<br>
wear causing premature drive line failure is coming from TIRE SALES.<br>
<br>
I seriously doubt that the engineers that designed the Subaru AWD<br>
system considered "slip" to be a whopping 4 full tire revolution per<br>
mile incrementally. I would consider, and expect they would too, slip<br>
to be a sudden change in rotation difference. As the hydraulics<br>
involved use pressure differential valving, it's pretty clear to me<br>
that small differences, like those between the inner tire and outer<br>
tire on a curve (a similar difference as between wear levels) would be<br>
the normal differential action. It should only be the action of a tire<br>
suddenly spinning that causes a pressure drop across a circuit that<br>
allows a pin valve to close off power to that wheel.<br>
<br>
I can see if someone put different SIZE tires causing an issue. But<br>
tire wear is all within the realm of turning differentials.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE)<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I found this link. I think I'll stop researching the awd for now and pick it up again later.<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=18" target="_blank">http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=18</a><br>
><br>
> Ron<br>
><br>
><br>
> "Ron Frazier (ALE)" <<a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com">atllinuxenthinfo@techstarship.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>>Hi Sean,<br>
>><br>
>>I'm not an expert on AWD, just reporting what I've been told. I'll try<br>
>>to do some research when I can and post anything I find that looks<br>
>>useful. Here's the situation as I understand it. I think you're right<br>
>>that most Santa Fe style AWD systems are FWD most of the time. Many of<br>
>>the new cars have traction control or stability control. If the system<br>
>>detects slippage, the rear wheels are engaged. If all tires are the<br>
>>same size and none are slipping, the system is happy. Let's say you<br>
>>replace one tire with a used smaller one because an original one was<br>
>>damaged. Then, that new tire will be spinning faster. The system may<br>
>>think that one is slipping. Then the viscous couplings, etc. try to<br>
>>route additional power to the other three wheels and reduce power to<br>
>>the "slipping" wheel. Which, of course, they cannot do because the<br>
>>other three are turning as fast as they can. So, the traction control<br>
>>system becomes engaged full time and wears things out. If you had put<br>
>>a larger!<br>
>>tire on to replace the damaged one, then the system might think all<br>
>>three others are slipping, and try to route power to the one new one,<br>
>>which would again cause problems.<br>
>><br>
>>This forum post says Subaru has a system which requires no more<br>
>>variance in tire size than 1/4" in circumference, which is 1.25 / 32"<br>
>>of tread depth, a goal which is almost impossible to meet.<br>
>><br>
>><a href="http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1b9005/26" target="_blank">http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1b9005/26</a><br>
>><br>
>>In another forum post, I found out that <a href="http://tirerack.com" target="_blank">tirerack.com</a> has a tire shaving<br>
>>service that they use to equalize the size of a set of tires for<br>
>>people.<br>
>><br>
>>In the case of the Mazda I almost bought, I was having a pre purchase<br>
>>inspection done at the dealer, but was not buying the car from them.<br>
>>The service manager was very emphatic that I could not just replace the<br>
>>tire with the nail and screw in it. I don't think he was trying to<br>
>>defraud me.<br>
>><br>
>>Sincerely,<br>
>><br>
>>Ron<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>Sean Kilpatrick <<a href="mailto:kilpatms@gmail.com">kilpatms@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>>I am very suspicious of this. There are significant differences<br>
>>>between<br>
>>>four-wheel drive and "all-wheel drive." The latter, which most<br>
>>>light-duty<br>
>>>SUVs have today, is for temporary use only on slippery surfaces as the<br>
>><br>
>>>drive electronics lock the differentials. That is, the wheels on the<br>
>>>left<br>
>>>side are turning in lock step with the ones on the right. When the<br>
>>>diffs<br>
>>>are locked, then the left/right tire pairs have to be very close to<br>
>>the<br>
>>><br>
>>>same circumference or the constant drag/slippage almost certainly will<br>
>><br>
>>>cause problems. On snow, ice, or mud, not really a problem for small<br>
>>>differences.<br>
>>><br>
>>>The problem, such as it is, is real for vehicles (think older Land<br>
>>>Rovers)<br>
>>>that have the ability to lock any of the three diffs independently.<br>
>>At<br>
>>><br>
>>>that point the tires need to be the same size to avoid problems.<br>
>>><br>
>>>Today almost all "AWD" vehicles are full time front-wheel drive and<br>
>>>have<br>
>>>only two diffs: One for the front and one for the center. When the<br>
>>>center<br>
>>>one is "engaged" the back wheels turn as one and the front diff also<br>
>>is<br>
>>><br>
>>>locked. Significant differences in tire circumference will put stress<br>
>>>on the<br>
>>>drive train.<br>
>>><br>
>>>But a thirty-second or two is probably not significant. The tire on<br>
>>my<br>
>>>SUV<br>
>>>has a current diameter of 28.25 inches (more than 30k miles.) Suppose<br>
>>>I<br>
>>>replaced it with another used tire with an additional 2/32" of tread.<br>
>>>The<br>
>>>rolling diameter of the smaller tire would still be 99.78% of the<br>
>>>larger.<br>
>>>If this were a real problem, there would be many more drive train<br>
>>>failures<br>
>>>caused by installing the spare tire and continuing down the<br>
>>interstate.<br>
>>>(And, no, I wasn't willing to haul out the spare tire and measure its<br>
>>>actual diameter.)<br>
>>><br>
>>>Sean<br>
>>><br>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>On Wednesday, November 28, 2012 05:16:11 pm Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:<br>
>>>> Re: awd - All wheel drive can be very handy. I almost bought an AWD<br>
>>>> Mazda Tribute. However, it had an unpatchable screw AND nail in one<br>
>>>> tire. They said I had to replace all tires at once to keep them the<br>
>>>> same circumference. I did some research and it appears to be<br>
>>>> true. You have to keep the tread depth of all tires within 1 or<br>
>>2/32<br>
>>>> of an inch or it screws up the drive train and can cause premature<br>
>>>> failure. I never knew that before<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>><br>
>>>_______________________________________________<br>
>>>Ale mailing list<br>
>>><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>>><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>>>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>>><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>--<br>
>><br>
>>Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9<br>
>>Mail.<br>
>>Please excuse my potential brevity.<br>
>><br>
>>(To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to<br>
>>former<br>
>>messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the<br>
>>wrong<br>
>>address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.)<br>
>><br>
>>(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to<br>
>>call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate<br>
>>energy<br>
>>mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very<br>
>>quickly.)<br>
>><br>
>>Ron Frazier<br>
>><a href="tel:770-205-9422" value="+17702059422">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a message.<br>
>>linuxdude AT <a href="http://techstarship.com" target="_blank">techstarship.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>_______________________________________________<br>
>>Ale mailing list<br>
>><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.<br>
> Please excuse my potential brevity.<br>
><br>
> (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former<br>
> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong<br>
> address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.)<br>
><br>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to<br>
> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy<br>
> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)<br>
><br>
> Ron Frazier<br>
> <a href="tel:770-205-9422" value="+17702059422">770-205-9422</a> (O) Leave a message.<br>
> linuxdude AT <a href="http://techstarship.com" target="_blank">techstarship.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
<br>
</div></div><div class="im HOEnZb">--<br>
--<br>
James P. Kinney III<br>
<br>
Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you<br>
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his<br>
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br>
<br>
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