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Ron,<br>
<br>
What is your take on SSDs vs HDDs ?<br>
<br>
Thanks again,<br>
<br>
C.Thomas<br>
<br>
On 10/24/2011 1:47 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4EA5A4BF.3020803@c3energy.com" type="cite">
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There are a couple of benefits to "rolling your own" external
drive.
It is frequently the case that the prefab drive in a case type of
packages don't have adequate cooling. While the compact DIY
enclosures
for 2.5" drives usually don't have fans inside, good ones are made
of
aluminum, which has good heat dissipation. Bigger enclosures
sometimes
have fans. Western Digital had problems a few years ago with
their
packaged drive in a case (my book, passbook, whatever it's
called).
The drives would fry themselves to death. Then you have to fret
with
RMAing the thing. If you open the case, you void the warranty,
and I
don't think they had a 5 year warranty. If you choose carefully,
you
can get a bare HDD with a 5 year warranty. Then you can switch it
in
and out of cases as you see fit. You can also upgrade it to a
larger
drive if you choose, and not worry about voiding the warranty.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
On 10/24/2011 1:21 PM, Greg Clifton wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJKW_Y52mOEi2p6GVUT-PdsGvFg318_NfjtT4MxKRY-AiLx_-A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Courtney,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding booting from CD (live CD) forgetaboutit. As
previously
mentioned, it will be slow to boot and execute and you will
have no
swap or permanent storage (no suspend to disc). Further, a
lost, broken
or scratched disc would stop you dead. Much better to run from
tumb
drive or external 2.5" drive if you prefer. Depending on the
age your
notebook it should have USB 2.0 but if older, my be USB 1.0.
If you
have USB 1.0, little will be gained by either a SSD or the
Seagate
Hybrid drive previously mentioned because you will be I/O
bound by the
bottleneck of the 1.0 USB bandwidth. Even with USB 2.0, I'm
not sure
you would gain much from a SSD over USB. You can buy nice
500GB to 1TB
external 2.5" drives for $100 or less these days and that will
give you
plenty of room to play with various distros, etc. Furthermore,
2.5"
drives are inherently more robust than 3.5" drives (smaller
platters
flutter less). If you should choose the route of "rolling your
own"
with an enclosure which you install your own drive into, get
one of the
G-Shock type drives so that it will auto park if the drive
happens to
get knocked off the desktop while in operation. You might
recall that
IBM had a great commercial touting that technology a few years
ago
before they sold their notebook business to Lenovo.<br>
Regards,</div>
<div>Greg Clifton<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM,
Courtney
Thomas <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
padding-left: 1ex;">Ron,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the extensive replies.<br>
<br>
What would be the downside of using live CDs for various
OSes and an<br>
external HD for data ?<br>
<br>
Appreciatively,<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Courtney<br>
</font>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
On 10/24/2011 10:53 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:<br>
> Courtney,<br>
><br>
> Here's my opinion of the pros and cons of HDD
versus Flash (memory<br>
> stick). I don't know anything about (old style)
ZIP drives, but I
think<br>
> they're pretty much obsolete. I'm not sure if
that's what you
meant.<br>
><br>
> HDD Pros:<br>
><br>
> lots of storage<br>
> cheap price<br>
> could possibly convert to using the
drive internally
in the<br>
> laptop<br>
> could use the drive later to backup
your PC<br>
> more likely to be able to dual boot /
multi boot<br>
><br>
> HDD Cons:<br>
><br>
> subject to mechanical damage (don't
smack or drop it)<br>
> usually requires 2 USB ports<br>
> heavier<br>
> more bulky<br>
> requires more power (reduces battery
run time)<br>
> slower (caveat - as mentioned in my
other post, the
USB speed<br>
> may be the limiting factor)<br>
><br>
> Flash (memory stick) Pros:<br>
><br>
> small<br>
> light<br>
> requires only one USB port<br>
> draws less power (increases battery
run time)<br>
> does not require an enclosure<br>
> faster (subject to limits of USB
speed)<br>
><br>
> Flash (memory stick) Cons:<br>
><br>
> less storage space<br>
> more money per GB<br>
> harder to dual boot / multi boot
(because of smaller
storage<br>
> capacity)<br>
> easier to lose or misplace<br>
> long term longevity is questionable
(in my opinion)<br>
> subject to electronic damage (static)<br>
> (Have you ever walked across a
carpet in the
winter,<br>
> touched a doorknob, and gotten a spark on your
finger?)<br>
> (If you ever do something that
sparks to the
memory<br>
> stick, even if you don't know it, it will
probably destroy it.)<br>
> (I would say the memory stick is
less likely to
incur<br>
> damage while traveling than the HDD.)<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regarding CD's, if you install your OS to the
external HDD, you
can boot<br>
> directly from it if your PC has the capability to
boot from USB.
You<br>
> don't need a CD. Also, another option is to put
multiple operating<br>
> systems on your internal HDD. This is what I do.
All my PC's can
dual<br>
> boot between Linux and Windows. You could
potentially boot between<br>
> multiple versions of Linux as well.<br>
><br>
> Sincerely,<br>
><br>
> Ron<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 10/24/2011 3:40 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:<br>
>> Ron,<br>
>><br>
>> Thank you for all the important concerns
unconsidered by me at
this<br>
>> point, but it sounds like... I might be
better advised to use
live CD<br>
>> distros with a portable HD (rather than zip
drives) for
reliability and<br>
>> space.<br>
>><br>
>> If true, what am I giving up if going that
route ? Speed ?<br>
>><br>
>> Gratefully,<br>
>><br>
>> Courtney<br>
>><br>
>> On 10/23/2011 12:37 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Courtney,<br>
>>><br>
>>> What I'm discussing relates to using a
memory stick for
your purpose.<br>
>>> Most of it won't apply if using a HDD for
storage. I will
freely admit<br>
>>> to not being an expert in booting from a
flash memory
stick. However,<br>
>>> here are some things to think about. You
probably want a
high speed<br>
>>> memory stick. They have different class
numbers. Higher
is better, and<br>
>>> they don't always say on the label. I
don't have the
numbers<br>
>>> memorized. Get something of high
quality. Pony up a few
extra dollars<br>
>>> for something with a 5 year warranty,
rather than a 1
year. (That would<br>
>>> apply to a HDD too.) The device should
have built in wear
leveling, and<br>
>>> should have SLC memory circuits which
have greater
longevity. This is<br>
>>> also not usually on the label. Flash
memory cells can
only be written a<br>
>>> certain number of times before they
degrade. When I was
teaching at a<br>
>>> technical college, I always told the
students not to rely
on a memory<br>
>>> stick for permanent storage. They can
flake out
sometimes. The other<br>
>>> thread I had posted about my relative
wanting to recover
photos is an<br>
>>> example. Obviously, storing an OS on the
thing is a more
permanent<br>
>>> application, and you don't want any bits
suddenly going
missing. I<br>
>>> would back up the entire memory stick
from one to another
periodically,<br>
>>> which would get the OS as well as all
your data. (This
also would apply<br>
>>> to a HDD.)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Here are a few items the Linux gurus here
(I'm not one)
may wish to<br>
>>> address. You may not want a swap
partition or file, since
a swap area<br>
>>> will pound the memory stick very hard if
the system get's
low on<br>
>>> resources. There are pros and cons
either way. Without
swap, if you<br>
>>> boot a PC with low RAM, and run too many
things, the OS
may crash.<br>
>>> Also, you may wish to disable write
caching to reduce the
likelihood of<br>
>>> damaging the OS if the memory stick is
removed without
safely ejecting<br>
>>> it. The USB port may automatically
disable write caching,
I don't know<br>
>>> about that.<br>
>>><br>
>>> In the past, I've heard of people running
Linux on a
memory stick and<br>
>>> burning out the stick within a few
months. That was a
while back, so<br>
>>> I'm not sure how the modern technology
affects these
issues. Makers of<br>
>>> memory sticks, and SSD's, now say cell
wear is not a
problem. That may<br>
>>> or may not be true, but I'm not totally
convinced. While
I would like<br>
>>> to have an SSD, I'm not yet convinced
that they can last 5
- 15 years,<br>
>>> the way a properly maintained and not
mechanically damaged
HDD can.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sincerely,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Ron<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 10/23/2011 11:42 AM, D. Marshall
Lemcoe Jr. wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> There are some very fine 32GB and
64GB in the sub-$100
price range and<br>
>>>> anything will suit a live-key. if
you're going to be
traveling, the<br>
>>>> USB flash drive will be your better
bet because there
is no chance of<br>
>>>> it breaking like a regular HDD might.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> As for the distribution, I would
recommend something
that doesn't take<br>
>>>> a lot of setup and configuration to
use, like Ubuntu
or Fedora.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Jim
Kinney<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> With the cost of removable media
what it is, it's
feasable to have several<br>
>>>>> distros on a 250GB drive all
sharing a /home and
selectable at boot from<br>
>>>>> grub.<br>
>>>>> Or carry a selection of live
CD/DVD media and a
thumb drive for storage.<br>
>>>>> This is easier unless the laptop
has no cd drive.
Older laptops may not be<br>
>>>>> able to boot from usb.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 9:41 AM, "Richard
Faulkner"<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rfaulkner@34thprs.org">rfaulkner@34thprs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> What is the most important
feature of the OS?
Security? Media support?<br>
>>>>>> Something basic or something
w/everything not
nailed down?<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>>>> From: Richard
Bronosky<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Richard@Bronosky.com"><Richard@Bronosky.com></a><br>
>>>>>> Reply-to: Atlanta Linux
Enthusiasts<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ale@ale.org">ale@ale.org</a>><br>
>>>>>> To: Atlanta Linux
Enthusiasts<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ale@ale.org">ale@ale.org</a>><br>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ale] Linux
alternative
recommendation ?<br>
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011
09:02:53 -0400<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> How much storage do you need?
Could a flash
drive work? 32G or 64G?<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 8:27 AM,
"Courtney Thomas"<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>><br>
>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I'd like to carry a portable
Linux USB HD
installation for traveling<br>
>>>>>> with my laptop and would
appreciate
suggestions, not only for which<br>
>>>>>> Linux flavor but also which
drive.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>> C.Thomas<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
</div>
</div>
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
Ron Frazier
770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT c3energy.com
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