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    Ron,<br>
    <br>
    What is your take on SSDs vs HDDs ?<br>
    <br>
    Thanks again,<br>
    <br>
    C.Thomas<br>
    <br>
    On 10/24/2011 1:47 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:4EA5A4BF.3020803@c3energy.com" type="cite">
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      There are a couple of benefits to "rolling your own" external
      drive.&nbsp;
      It is frequently the case that the prefab drive in a case type of
      packages don't have adequate cooling.&nbsp; While the compact DIY
      enclosures
      for 2.5" drives usually don't have fans inside, good ones are made
      of
      aluminum, which has good heat dissipation.&nbsp; Bigger enclosures
      sometimes
      have fans.&nbsp; Western Digital had problems a few years ago with
      their
      packaged drive in a case (my book, passbook, whatever it's
      called).&nbsp;
      The drives would fry themselves to death.&nbsp; Then you have to fret
      with
      RMAing the thing.&nbsp; If you open the case, you void the warranty,
      and I
      don't think they had a 5 year warranty.&nbsp; If you choose carefully,
      you
      can get a bare HDD with a 5 year warranty.&nbsp; Then you can switch it
      in
      and out of cases as you see fit.&nbsp; You can also upgrade it to a
      larger
      drive if you choose, and not worry about voiding the warranty.<br>
      <br>
      Sincerely,<br>
      <br>
      Ron<br>
      <br>
      On 10/24/2011 1:21 PM, Greg Clifton wrote:
      <blockquote
cite="mid:CAJKW_Y52mOEi2p6GVUT-PdsGvFg318_NfjtT4MxKRY-AiLx_-A@mail.gmail.com"
        type="cite">Courtney,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regarding booting from CD (live CD) forgetaboutit. As
          previously
          mentioned, it will be slow to boot and execute and you will
          have no
          swap or&nbsp;permanent&nbsp;storage (no suspend to disc). Further, a
          lost, broken
          or scratched disc would stop you dead. Much better to run from
          tumb
          drive or external 2.5" drive if you prefer. Depending on the
          age your
          notebook it should have USB 2.0 but if older, my be USB 1.0.
          If you
          have USB 1.0, little will be gained by either a SSD or the
          Seagate
          Hybrid drive previously&nbsp;mentioned because you will be I/O
          bound by the
          bottleneck of the 1.0 USB bandwidth. Even with USB 2.0, I'm
          not sure
          you would gain much from a SSD over USB. You can buy nice
          500GB to 1TB
          external 2.5" drives for $100 or less these days and that will
          give you
          plenty of room to play with various distros, etc. Furthermore,
          2.5"
          drives are inherently more robust than 3.5" drives (smaller
          platters
          flutter less). If you should choose the route of "rolling your
          own"
          with an enclosure which you install your own drive into, get
          one of the
          G-Shock type drives so that it will auto park if the drive
          happens to
          get knocked off the desktop while in operation. You might
          recall that
          IBM had a great commercial touting that technology a few years
          ago
          before they sold their notebook business to Lenovo.<br>
          Regards,</div>
        <div>Greg Clifton<br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM,
            Courtney
            Thomas <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>&gt;</span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
              solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
              padding-left: 1ex;">Ron,<br>
              <br>
              Thanks for the extensive replies.<br>
              <br>
              What would be the downside of using live CDs for various
              OSes and an<br>
              external HD for data ?<br>
              <br>
              Appreciatively,<br>
              <font color="#888888"><br>
                Courtney<br>
              </font>
              <div>
                <div class="h5"><br>
                  On 10/24/2011 10:53 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:<br>
                  &gt; Courtney,<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; Here's my opinion of the pros and cons of HDD
                  versus Flash (memory<br>
                  &gt; stick). &nbsp;I don't know anything about (old style)
                  ZIP drives, but I
                  think<br>
                  &gt; they're pretty much obsolete. &nbsp;I'm not sure if
                  that's what you
                  meant.<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; HDD Pros:<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; lots of storage<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cheap price<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; could possibly convert to using the
                  drive internally
                  in the<br>
                  &gt; laptop<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; could use the drive later to backup
                  your PC<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; more likely to be able to dual boot /
                  multi boot<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; HDD Cons:<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subject to mechanical damage (don't
                  smack or drop it)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; usually requires 2 USB ports<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; heavier<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; more bulky<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; requires more power (reduces battery
                  run time)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; slower (caveat - as mentioned in my
                  other post, the
                  USB speed<br>
                  &gt; may be the limiting factor)<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; Flash (memory stick) Pros:<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; small<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; light<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; requires only one USB port<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; draws less power (increases battery
                  run time)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; does not require an enclosure<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; faster (subject to limits of USB
                  speed)<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; Flash (memory stick) Cons:<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; less storage space<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; more money per GB<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; harder to dual boot / multi boot
                  (because of smaller
                  storage<br>
                  &gt; capacity)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; easier to lose or misplace<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; long term longevity is questionable
                  (in my opinion)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subject to electronic damage (static)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(Have you ever walked across a
                  carpet in the
                  winter,<br>
                  &gt; touched a doorknob, and gotten a spark on your
                  finger?)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(If you ever do something that
                  sparks to the
                  memory<br>
                  &gt; stick, even if you don't know it, it will
                  probably destroy it.)<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(I would say the memory stick is
                  less likely to
                  incur<br>
                  &gt; damage while traveling than the HDD.)<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; Regarding CD's, if you install your OS to the
                  external HDD, you
                  can boot<br>
                  &gt; directly from it if your PC has the capability to
                  boot from USB.
                  &nbsp;You<br>
                  &gt; don't need a CD. &nbsp;Also, another option is to put
                  multiple operating<br>
                  &gt; systems on your internal HDD. &nbsp;This is what I do.
                  &nbsp;All my PC's can
                  dual<br>
                  &gt; boot between Linux and Windows. &nbsp;You could
                  potentially boot between<br>
                  &gt; multiple versions of Linux as well.<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; Sincerely,<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; Ron<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; On 10/24/2011 3:40 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Ron,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Thank you for all the important concerns
                  unconsidered by me at
                  this<br>
                  &gt;&gt; point, but it sounds like... I might be
                  better advised to use
                  live CD<br>
                  &gt;&gt; distros with a portable HD (rather than zip
                  drives) for
                  reliability and<br>
                  &gt;&gt; space.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; If true, what am I giving up if going that
                  route ? &nbsp;Speed ?<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Gratefully,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Courtney<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; On 10/23/2011 12:37 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; Courtney,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; What I'm discussing relates to using a
                  memory stick for
                  your purpose.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; Most of it won't apply if using a HDD for
                  storage. &nbsp;I will
                  freely admit<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; to not being an expert in booting from a
                  flash memory
                  stick. &nbsp;However,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; here are some things to think about. &nbsp;You
                  probably want a
                  high speed<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; memory stick. &nbsp;They have different class
                  numbers. &nbsp;Higher
                  is better, and<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; they don't always say on the label. &nbsp;I
                  don't have the
                  numbers<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; memorized. &nbsp;Get something of high
                  quality. &nbsp;Pony up a few
                  extra dollars<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; for something with a 5 year warranty,
                  rather than a 1
                  year. &nbsp;(That would<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; apply to a HDD too.) &nbsp;The device should
                  have built in wear
                  leveling, and<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; should have SLC memory circuits which
                  have greater
                  longevity. &nbsp;This is<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; also not usually on the label. &nbsp;Flash
                  memory cells can
                  only be written a<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; certain number of times before they
                  degrade. &nbsp;When I was
                  teaching at a<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; technical college, I always told the
                  students not to rely
                  on a memory<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; stick for permanent storage. &nbsp;They can
                  flake out
                  sometimes. &nbsp;The other<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; thread I had posted about my relative
                  wanting to recover
                  photos is an<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; example. &nbsp;Obviously, storing an OS on the
                  thing is a more
                  permanent<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; application, and you don't want any bits
                  suddenly going
                  missing. &nbsp;I<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; would back up the entire memory stick
                  from one to another
                  periodically,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; which would get the OS as well as all
                  your data. &nbsp;(This
                  also would apply<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; to a HDD.)<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; Here are a few items the Linux gurus here
                  (I'm not one)
                  may wish to<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; address. &nbsp;You may not want a swap
                  partition or file, since
                  a swap area<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; will pound the memory stick very hard if
                  the system get's
                  low on<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; resources. &nbsp;There are pros and cons
                  either way. &nbsp;Without
                  swap, if you<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; boot a PC with low RAM, and run too many
                  things, the OS
                  may crash.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; Also, you may wish to disable write
                  caching to reduce the
                  likelihood of<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; damaging the OS if the memory stick is
                  removed without
                  safely ejecting<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; it. &nbsp;The USB port may automatically
                  disable write caching,
                  I don't know<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; about that.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; In the past, I've heard of people running
                  Linux on a
                  memory stick and<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; burning out the stick within a few
                  months. &nbsp;That was a
                  while back, so<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; I'm not sure how the modern technology
                  affects these
                  issues. &nbsp;Makers of<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; memory sticks, and SSD's, now say cell
                  wear is not a
                  problem. &nbsp;That may<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; or may not be true, but I'm not totally
                  convinced. &nbsp;While
                  I would like<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; to have an SSD, I'm not yet convinced
                  that they can last 5
                  - 15 years,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; the way a properly maintained and not
                  mechanically damaged
                  HDD can.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; Sincerely,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; Ron<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; On 10/23/2011 11:42 AM, D. Marshall
                  Lemcoe Jr. wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There are some very fine 32GB and
                  64GB in the sub-$100
                  price range and<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; anything will suit a live-key. if
                  you're going to be
                  traveling, the<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; USB flash drive will be your better
                  bet because there
                  is no chance of<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it breaking like a regular HDD might.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As for the distribution, I would
                  recommend something
                  that doesn't take<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a lot of setup and configuration to
                  use, like Ubuntu
                  or Fedora.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Jim
                  Kinney&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>&gt;
&nbsp;
                  &nbsp; wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; With the cost of removable media
                  what it is, it's
                  feasable to have several<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; distros on a 250GB drive all
                  sharing a /home and
                  selectable at boot from<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; grub.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Or carry a selection of live
                  CD/DVD media and a
                  thumb drive for storage.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This is easier unless the laptop
                  has no cd drive.
                  Older laptops may not be<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; able to boot from usb.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Oct 23, 2011 9:41 AM, "Richard
                  Faulkner"&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:rfaulkner@34thprs.org">rfaulkner@34thprs.org</a>&gt;
&nbsp;
                  &nbsp; wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What is the most important
                  feature of the OS?
                  &nbsp;Security? &nbsp;Media support?<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Something basic or something
                  w/everything not
                  nailed down?<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Richard
                  Bronosky<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                    href="mailto:Richard@Bronosky.com">&lt;Richard@Bronosky.com&gt;</a><br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Reply-to: Atlanta Linux
                  Enthusiasts&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:ale@ale.org">ale@ale.org</a>&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Atlanta Linux
                  Enthusiasts&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:ale@ale.org">ale@ale.org</a>&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [ale] Linux
                  alternative
                  recommendation ?<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011
                  09:02:53 -0400<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; How much storage do you need?
                  Could a flash
                  drive work? 32G or 64G?<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Oct 23, 2011 8:27 AM,
                  "Courtney Thomas"&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd like to carry a portable
                  Linux USB HD
                  installation for traveling<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with my laptop and would
                  appreciate
                  suggestions, not only for which<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Linux flavor but also which
                  drive.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C.Thomas<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                </div>
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      <br>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)

Ron Frazier

770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
linuxdude AT c3energy.com
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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