<p>The funny thing about all this vim vs emacs business is that they seem to have the ability to do similar things. But I think emacs and its single-mode setup is better. Just my two cents!</p>
<p>--<br>
Sent from my phone... a G2 running CM7 nightlies!</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 26, 2011 9:48 AM, "Jim Kinney" <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> Hah! You left out the "TIF" (Total Intimidation Factor) of watching someone<br>
> proficient in vim really use the environment.<br>> <br>> I think it was at the point I saw someone split the screen, open a shell,<br>> reconnect to an open screen session running ssh to a remote machine and<br>
> extract a config file and paste it back in the vim doc they were working on<br>> that I just totally dropped my jaw.<br>> <br>> The _ONLY_ thing I like about the forced screen format of current laptop is<br>
> I can easily do a vertical split in vim and see two files side by side, one<br>> orig and the other working version.<br>> <br>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Michael Potter <<a href="mailto:michael@potter.name">michael@potter.name</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>>> Yet another suggestion for gaining skills in vim:<br>>> Watch someone who is good at vim use vim.<br>>><br>>> You will not necessarily know what commands they are using, but you<br>>> will know what you are aiming for in your learning.<br>
>><br>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> > A suggestion on gaining skills in vim:<br>>> ><br>>> > don't use anything but vim<br>
>> ><br>>> > gedit is a good tool for doing cut-n-paste from firefox and the like when<br>>> > the goal is to assemble an array of disconnected info to be used in<br>>> another<br>>> > format like LOwriter. But for coding, not so good. (and to think I first<br>
>> > coded in pico and designed to work around the line-length limits of pico)<br>>> ><br>>> > There is also gvim which is vim with an X-windows environment. Works just<br>>> > like vim from a shell but also has menus you can use when you can't<br>
>> recall<br>>> > the commands. Importantly, it shows the cli-version commands to use as<br>>> the<br>>> > menu shortcuts so you learn vim.<br>>> ><br>>> > On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Ron Frazier <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@c3energy.com">atllinuxenthinfo@c3energy.com</a>><br>>> > wrote:<br>>> >><br>>> >> JD,<br>>> >><br>>> >> Thanks for all this info. I'm saving it for the time when I need it.<br>
>> >> Thanks too, for the offer of help. I may take you up on it at some<br>>> >> point. Until I get more thoroughly into VIM, do you know anything about<br>>> >> using gedit for editing?<br>
>> >><br>>> >> To the others who've replied to my posting, thank you, whether I<br>>> >> personally replied to every one or not.<br>>> >><br>>> >> Sincerely,<br>
>> >><br>>> >> Ron<br>>> >><br>>> >> On 6/24/2011 10:33 PM, JD wrote:<br>>> >> > On 06/24/2011 05:09 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> >> Hi Rich,<br>
>> >> >><br>>> >> >> Even though we've discussed some of this on the phone, I thought I'd<br>>> >> >> share it with the group.<br>>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> I've been threatening to relearn programming for 15 years, and I'm<br>>> >> >> hoping to actually carry out the threat. 15 years ago, I programmed<br>>> in<br>>> >> >> Clipper, a C like database language. I posted a thread a few months<br>
>> >> >> back on this list talking about developing in C#. However, the<br>>> people<br>>> >> >> here convinced me that C++ would be better. I now hope to plow<br>>> through<br>
>> >> >> the book "Programming Principles and Practice Using C++" by Bjarne<br>>> >> >> Stroustrup (the inventor of C++). I'm hoping to do cross platform<br>>> >> >> development. I'm going to use Visual C++ Express on Windows, which<br>
>> is<br>>> >> >> free. On Linux, I've hit on the GCC compiler, as suggested by<br>>> others.<br>>> >> >> I don't know how to use the make system, at this point, but compiling<br>
>> >> >> small programs with a few source files seems to be very simple. I<br>>> >> >> believe you can go through this entire book without an IDE. I know<br>>> >> >> that<br>
>> >> >> the gedit editor in Ubuntu does syntax highlighting and auto<br>>> indention<br>>> >> >> for C / C++ files. I'll probably start out using that. I may also<br>>> try<br>
>> >> >> VIM as I've had just enough experience with VI in the past to be<br>>> >> >> dangerous. (I basically know the insert, delete line, and write file<br>>> >> >> commands.) Obviously, I would have to learn more about VIM for<br>
>> serious<br>>> >> >> programming, but you can do a lot with just those commands, although<br>>> >> >> not<br>>> >> >> very efficiently. By the way, this book also talks about a cross<br>
>> >> >> platform minimal graphics toolkit called FLTK (faster than light<br>>> >> >> toolkit, I think) which can be used to put basic windows and buttons<br>>> on<br>>> >> >> the screen, etc. When I graduate to an IDE, I'll probably try<br>
>> NetBeans<br>>> >> >> or Eclipse. I believe Eclipse can run on Windows too.<br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >><br>>> >> > You don't need an IDE and when you are starting out, it complicates<br>
>> and<br>>> >> > hides things that you really need to know. You need 3 terminals.<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > * Any good syntax highlighting editor in a window (vim, geany, or<br>
>> cough<br>>> >> > emacs). Geany does a halstat on functions and classes which is very<br>>> >> > useful without all the bloat that java-based IDEs bring.<br>>> >> > * in another term, use make<br>
>> >> > * debugger like gdb or xxgdb if you want a GUI. I haven't done<br>>> >> > debugging in years, so does xxgdb still exist?<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > You also want to use a version control system. These days I like BZR,<br>
>> >> > but GIT is useful too.<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > Vim is probably the most efficient editor ever created. You just need<br>>> to<br>>> >> > know how to use it. I've used many different editors of all sorts,<br>
>> >> > brief, spf-edit, emacs, vi, Visual C++, geany, notepad++, eclipse ...<br>>> >> > none of them compare to vim in the hands of a power user. I migrated<br>>> >> > from emacs to vim when I kept changing into vi-mode to get things<br>
>> done.<br>>> >> > Anyway, an editor is a very personal decision and you'll need to pick<br>>> >> > the best for yourself.<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > You can start with simple bash scripts to build your initial projects.<br>
>> >> > It isn't like they will be all that large or take more than a few<br>>> >> > seconds.<br>>> >> > make ... ah, make. tabs matter. Be certain that your editor isn't<br>
>> >> > "helping you" by replacing tabs with spaces. If that happens, your<br>>> >> > Makefile will never work. I think gmake is the default make in Linux,<br>>> >> > which is good. It has been more than a few years since I wrote any<br>
>> >> > makefiles, but if you provide a sample and ask a question, I can help.<br>>> >> > I may even have a makefile template around here on an old CD backup<br>>> from<br>>> >> > work ... long ago.<br>
>> >> ><br>>> >> ><br>>> >><br>>> >> --<br>>> >><br>>> >> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to<br>>> >> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy<br>
>> >> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly.)<br>>> >><br>>> >> Ron Frazier<br>>> >><br>>> >> 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.<br>
>> >> linuxdude AT <a href="http://c3energy.com">c3energy.com</a><br>>> >><br>>> >> _______________________________________________<br>>> >> Ale mailing list<br>>> >> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > --<br>>> > James P. Kinney III<br>>> ><br>>> > As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to<br>
>> > consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they<br>>> > please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.<br>>> > - 2011 Noam Chomsky<br>>> ><br>
>> > <a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > _______________________________________________<br>>> > Ale mailing list<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Michael Potter<br>>> Replatform Technologies, LLC<br>
>> +1 770 815 6142<br>>> <a href="mailto:michael@potter.name">michael@potter.name</a><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Ale mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> -- <br>> James P. Kinney III<br>> <br>> As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to<br>> consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they<br>
> please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.<br>> - *2011 Noam Chomsky<br>> <br>> <a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>> *<br>
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