<p>I use emacs in single-user mode... makes little difference on my systems since they are both in /usr/bin... but I have been on older unix systems with only vi. I know enough of it to edit basic text, but I *much* prefer the environment that emacs provides for programming.</p>
<p>Truth be told, I would *love* something like emacs but built around Python instead of LISP. Haven't found or built that yet, though...</p>
<p>On all other accounts I agree with you 100% though. :)</p>
<p>--<br>
Sent from my phone... a G2 running CM7 nightlies!</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 26, 2011 11:56 AM, "Jim Kinney" <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> My thing with emacs is in single-user mode during a catastrophic failure, I<br>
> have vi(m) not emacs. So why learn two tools?<br>> <br>> So I tell people if you're going to only<br>> _learn _one_ make it<br>> editing tool vim<br>
> scripting language PERL (I'm shifting that towards<br>> Python BTW)<br>> compiled language C<br>> DBM PostgreSQL<br>
> <br>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Michael Trausch <<a href="mailto:mike@trausch.us">mike@trausch.us</a>> wrote:<br>> <br>>> The funny thing about all this vim vs emacs business is that they seem to<br>
>> have the ability to do similar things. But I think emacs and its single-mode<br>>> setup is better. Just my two cents!<br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Sent from my phone... a G2 running CM7 nightlies!<br>
>> On Jun 26, 2011 9:48 AM, "Jim Kinney" <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> > Hah! You left out the "TIF" (Total Intimidation Factor) of watching<br>
>> someone<br>>> > proficient in vim really use the environment.<br>>> ><br>>> > I think it was at the point I saw someone split the screen, open a shell,<br>>> > reconnect to an open screen session running ssh to a remote machine and<br>
>> > extract a config file and paste it back in the vim doc they were working<br>>> on<br>>> > that I just totally dropped my jaw.<br>>> ><br>>> > The _ONLY_ thing I like about the forced screen format of current laptop<br>
>> is<br>>> > I can easily do a vertical split in vim and see two files side by side,<br>>> one<br>>> > orig and the other working version.<br>>> ><br>>> > On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Michael Potter <<a href="mailto:michael@potter.name">michael@potter.name</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>>> ><br>>> >> Yet another suggestion for gaining skills in vim:<br>>> >> Watch someone who is good at vim use vim.<br>>> >><br>>> >> You will not necessarily know what commands they are using, but you<br>
>> >> will know what you are aiming for in your learning.<br>>> >><br>>> >> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>>> >> > A suggestion on gaining skills in vim:<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > don't use anything but vim<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > gedit is a good tool for doing cut-n-paste from firefox and the like<br>
>> when<br>>> >> > the goal is to assemble an array of disconnected info to be used in<br>>> >> another<br>>> >> > format like LOwriter. But for coding, not so good. (and to think I<br>
>> first<br>>> >> > coded in pico and designed to work around the line-length limits of<br>>> pico)<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > There is also gvim which is vim with an X-windows environment. Works<br>
>> just<br>>> >> > like vim from a shell but also has menus you can use when you can't<br>>> >> recall<br>>> >> > the commands. Importantly, it shows the cli-version commands to use as<br>
>> >> the<br>>> >> > menu shortcuts so you learn vim.<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Ron Frazier <<br>>> >> <a href="mailto:atllinuxenthinfo@c3energy.com">atllinuxenthinfo@c3energy.com</a>><br>
>> >> > wrote:<br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> JD,<br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> Thanks for all this info. I'm saving it for the time when I need it.<br>
>> >> >> Thanks too, for the offer of help. I may take you up on it at some<br>>> >> >> point. Until I get more thoroughly into VIM, do you know anything<br>>> about<br>>> >> >> using gedit for editing?<br>
>> >> >><br>>> >> >> To the others who've replied to my posting, thank you, whether I<br>>> >> >> personally replied to every one or not.<br>>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> Sincerely,<br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> Ron<br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> On 6/24/2011 10:33 PM, JD wrote:<br>>> >> >> > On 06/24/2011 05:09 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:<br>
>> >> >> ><br>>> >> >> >> Hi Rich,<br>>> >> >> >><br>>> >> >> >> Even though we've discussed some of this on the phone, I thought<br>
>> I'd<br>>> >> >> >> share it with the group.<br>>> >> >> >><br>>> >> >> >> I've been threatening to relearn programming for 15 years, and I'm<br>
>> >> >> >> hoping to actually carry out the threat. 15 years ago, I<br>>> programmed<br>>> >> in<br>>> >> >> >> Clipper, a C like database language. I posted a thread a few<br>
>> months<br>>> >> >> >> back on this list talking about developing in C#. However, the<br>>> >> people<br>>> >> >> >> here convinced me that C++ would be better. I now hope to plow<br>
>> >> through<br>>> >> >> >> the book "Programming Principles and Practice Using C++" by Bjarne<br>>> >> >> >> Stroustrup (the inventor of C++). I'm hoping to do cross platform<br>
>> >> >> >> development. I'm going to use Visual C++ Express on Windows, which<br>>> >> is<br>>> >> >> >> free. On Linux, I've hit on the GCC compiler, as suggested by<br>
>> >> others.<br>>> >> >> >> I don't know how to use the make system, at this point, but<br>>> compiling<br>>> >> >> >> small programs with a few source files seems to be very simple. I<br>
>> >> >> >> believe you can go through this entire book without an IDE. I know<br>>> >> >> >> that<br>>> >> >> >> the gedit editor in Ubuntu does syntax highlighting and auto<br>
>> >> indention<br>>> >> >> >> for C / C++ files. I'll probably start out using that. I may also<br>>> >> try<br>>> >> >> >> VIM as I've had just enough experience with VI in the past to be<br>
>> >> >> >> dangerous. (I basically know the insert, delete line, and write<br>>> file<br>>> >> >> >> commands.) Obviously, I would have to learn more about VIM for<br>
>> >> serious<br>>> >> >> >> programming, but you can do a lot with just those commands,<br>>> although<br>>> >> >> >> not<br>>> >> >> >> very efficiently. By the way, this book also talks about a cross<br>
>> >> >> >> platform minimal graphics toolkit called FLTK (faster than light<br>>> >> >> >> toolkit, I think) which can be used to put basic windows and<br>>> buttons<br>
>> >> on<br>>> >> >> >> the screen, etc. When I graduate to an IDE, I'll probably try<br>>> >> NetBeans<br>>> >> >> >> or Eclipse. I believe Eclipse can run on Windows too.<br>
>> >> >> >><br>>> >> >> >><br>>> >> >> > You don't need an IDE and when you are starting out, it complicates<br>>> >> and<br>>> >> >> > hides things that you really need to know. You need 3 terminals.<br>
>> >> >> ><br>>> >> >> > * Any good syntax highlighting editor in a window (vim, geany, or<br>>> >> cough<br>>> >> >> > emacs). Geany does a halstat on functions and classes which is very<br>
>> >> >> > useful without all the bloat that java-based IDEs bring.<br>>> >> >> > * in another term, use make<br>>> >> >> > * debugger like gdb or xxgdb if you want a GUI. I haven't done<br>
>> >> >> > debugging in years, so does xxgdb still exist?<br>>> >> >> ><br>>> >> >> > You also want to use a version control system. These days I like<br>>> BZR,<br>
>> >> >> > but GIT is useful too.<br>>> >> >> ><br>>> >> >> > Vim is probably the most efficient editor ever created. You just<br>>> need<br>>> >> to<br>
>> >> >> > know how to use it. I've used many different editors of all sorts,<br>>> >> >> > brief, spf-edit, emacs, vi, Visual C++, geany, notepad++, eclipse<br>>> ...<br>
>> >> >> > none of them compare to vim in the hands of a power user. I<br>>> migrated<br>>> >> >> > from emacs to vim when I kept changing into vi-mode to get things<br>>> >> done.<br>
>> >> >> > Anyway, an editor is a very personal decision and you'll need to<br>>> pick<br>>> >> >> > the best for yourself.<br>>> >> >> ><br>>> >> >> > You can start with simple bash scripts to build your initial<br>
>> projects.<br>>> >> >> > It isn't like they will be all that large or take more than a few<br>>> >> >> > seconds.<br>>> >> >> > make ... ah, make. tabs matter. Be certain that your editor isn't<br>
>> >> >> > "helping you" by replacing tabs with spaces. If that happens, your<br>>> >> >> > Makefile will never work. I think gmake is the default make in<br>>> Linux,<br>
>> >> >> > which is good. It has been more than a few years since I wrote any<br>>> >> >> > makefiles, but if you provide a sample and ask a question, I can<br>>> help.<br>>> >> >> > I may even have a makefile template around here on an old CD backup<br>
>> >> from<br>>> >> >> > work ... long ago.<br>>> >> >> ><br>>> >> >> ><br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> --<br>>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want<br>>> to<br>>> >> >> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate<br>>> energy<br>
>> >> >> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very<br>>> quickly.)<br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> Ron Frazier<br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.<br>
>> >> >> linuxdude AT <a href="http://c3energy.com">c3energy.com</a><br>>> >> >><br>>> >> >> _______________________________________________<br>>> >> >> Ale mailing list<br>
>> >> >> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>> >> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>> >> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>> >> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>> >> ><br>>> >> ><br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > --<br>
>> >> > --<br>>> >> > James P. Kinney III<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to<br>>> >> > consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as<br>
>> they<br>>> >> > please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.<br>>> >> > - 2011 Noam Chomsky<br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > <a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>
>> >> ><br>>> >> ><br>>> >> > _______________________________________________<br>>> >> > Ale mailing list<br>>> >> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>> >> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>> >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>> >> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>> >> ><br>>> >> ><br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >> --<br>>> >> Michael Potter<br>>> >> Replatform Technologies, LLC<br>
>> >> +1 770 815 6142<br>>> >> <a href="mailto:michael@potter.name">michael@potter.name</a><br>>> >><br>>> >> _______________________________________________<br>>> >> Ale mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>> >><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > --<br>
>> > James P. Kinney III<br>>> ><br>>> > As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to<br>>> > consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they<br>
>> > please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.<br>>> > - *2011 Noam Chomsky<br>>> ><br>>> > <a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>
>> > *<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Ale mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>><br>>><br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> -- <br>> James P. Kinney III<br>
> <br>> As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to<br>> consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they<br>> please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.<br>
> - *2011 Noam Chomsky<br>> <br>> <a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/">http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</a><br>> *<br></div>