<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div><div>On 2011/03/29, at 17:11 , Jim Kinney wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Charles Shapiro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; "> And yet, without those evil corporations we would not be swimming in<br> the happy sea of </blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">(toxic waste dumps caused by unregulated production of) </blockquote> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; ">cheap and wonderful hardware which we inhabit. I<br> bought a 1/2 terabyte drive at Fry's the other day for $50 </blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">(that was built by children who are nearly slaves in China). </blockquote> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; "> Small shops and artisanal craftsmanship cannot produce that kind of<br> machinery at that price</blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> (and theyhave no desire to produce WalMart-level quality). </blockquote> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; "> Corporations are certainly capable of<br> outrageous behavior, but that's only half the story.<br></blockquote><div>(The other half is the rampant greed that drives economic system</div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>to near global collapse) <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; "> <br> -- CHS<br></blockquote><div><br>I have almost zero trust for any process that holds the top level blameless</div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>and harmless from their decisions. Corporations are my prime example.</div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Political leaders are the secondary example. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Here's more of the reality. The nicest thing about these videos is that</div><div>the simple, clear, down to earth way that Annie Leonard presents the</div><div>Truth, it might even be possible for delusional, child killing, drooling,</div><div>Glenn Beck foil hat conspiracy nut, teabagger terrorist, Koch brother</div><div>teahadist puppet hate monger types to understand it (assuming it's</div><div>possible for them to pull their zombie heads out of their sphincters</div><div>for all of ten minutes):</div><div><br></div><div><<a href="http://www.youtube.com/storyofstuffproject#p/u/22/9GorqroigqM">http://www.youtube.com/storyofstuffproject#p/u/22/9GorqroigqM</a>></div><div><br></div><div>Makes me want to take out a billboard ad for all those patricidal</div><div>killers of the American Dream:</div><div>Hey STOOPID! It's the CORPORATIONS that are coproRAPING</div><div>you, and corpoRAPING your economy, and corpoRAPING your</div><div>country, and corpoRAPING your freedoms, and corpoRAPING your</div><div>children, and, with the aid of YOUR blissful ignorance and</div><div>compliant infantile denial and rabid right wing media puppet</div><div>zombie hate mongering terrorism, they are coproRAPING the</div><div>future of everyone and everything else on the entire planet, too!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>peace</div><div>aaron</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; "><div><div class="h5">On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> > Yay! Aaron's back!<br> ><br> > Constitution is about PEOPLE not corporations.<br> ><br> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:36 PM, arxaaron <<a href="mailto:arxaaron@gmail.com">arxaaron@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >><br> >> On 2011/03/24, at 10:11 , Charles Shapiro wrote:<br> >><br> >> > I was merely using Mr. Paine as a hint that copyright laws Need to<br> >> > Change. "When we are exposed to the same miseries BY a government,<br> >> > which we might expect in a country WITHOUT government..."<br> >> ><br> >> > When "Intellectual Property" laws become an IMPEDIMENT to innovation,<br> >> > rather than a SPUR, it is time to change the laws. Walt Disney<br> >> > doesn't own my computer. Warner Brothers can't dictate how I use it.<br> >> > Sony Inc. won't stop me from writing code.<br> >> ><br> >> > -- CHS<br> >> ><br> >><br> >><br> >> Which speaks to the REAL core of the problem, which is that our<br> >> social democracy, a Positive, Just and Constructive system of<br> >> government that was designed by constitution to establish and<br> >> protect the freedoms and civil liberties of its citizens, has been<br> >> destroyed by Corporate Welfare State fascism.<br> >><br> >> Since usurping the 14th Amendment laws intended to protect the<br> >> _human_ rights and civil liberties of freed _human_ slaves in 1896,<br> >> the totalitarian structures of piratizing corporation have corrupted<br> >> every law and every institution of the good government that was<br> >> designed to protect the rights and liberties of its citizens. The<br> >> corporapist elites and their vicious pursuit of resource theft,<br> >> worker exploitation and monopolies have been a the blood<br> >> sucking cancer of greed to our nation since its founding.<br> >><br> >> peace<br> >> aaron<br> >><br> >><br> >><br> >> ><br> >> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>><br> >> > wrote:<br> >> >> Brilliant prose from a brilliant person from a time period when no<br> >> >> government had ever yet done any measurable good for any portion of<br> >> >> their<br> >> >> governed that approached a majority.<br> >> >> I wish Franklin and Jefferson could have seen humans walking on the<br> >> >> moon.<br> >> >><br> >> >> On Mar 23, 2011 2:57 PM, "Charles Shapiro"<br> >> >> <<a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >> >>> For a more sensible response: I am sorry, but I strongly disagree<br> >> >>> with<br> >> >>> Ron's contentions about Intellectual Property.<br> >> >>><br> >> >>> Intellectual Property is nonsense. If you steal my real property,<br> >> >>> you<br> >> >>> deprive me of the use of it. Steal my bicycle, and I can't use it to<br> >> >>> go down to the store. If you make a copy of my book (or my song, or<br> >> >>> my software...), I can still read (or play, or use) my copy. More to<br> >> >>> the point, I can still SELL my copy. You could (possibly) argue that<br> >> >>> publishing your copy of my book may deprive me of some revenues<br> >> >>> which<br> >> >>> I might otherwise have acquired from selling copies of my book, but<br> >> >>> that money a phantasm. It is not the same as the money I keep in my<br> >> >>> wallet or my bank account. "Intellectual Property" laws are hacks to<br> >> >>> encourage people to write neat stuff. Once they start getting<br> >> >>> _in_the_way_ of creating stuff, they're obviously a Bad Idea.<br> >> >>> Confusing this putative "Intellectual Property" with real property<br> >> >>> is<br> >> >>> a sure way to misunderstand every moral and legal issue associated<br> >> >>> with creative work.<br> >> >>><br> >> >>> The Original Ranter maybe said it best:<br> >> >>><br> >> >>> Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its<br> >> >>> best<br> >> >>> state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one;<br> >> >>> for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a<br> >> >>> government, which we might expect in a country without government,<br> >> >>> our<br> >> >>> calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by<br> >> >>> which we suffer! Government, like dress, is the badge of lost<br> >> >>> innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers<br> >> >>> of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and<br> >> >>> irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not<br> >> >>> being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his<br> >> >>> property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this<br> >> >>> he<br> >> >>> is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case<br> >> >>> advises him out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore,<br> >> >>> security<br> >> >>> being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows<br> >> >>> that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us,<br> >> >>> with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all<br> >> >>> others.<br> >> >>><br> >> >>> (Tom Paine, 1776)<br> >> >>><br> >> >>> -- CHS<br> >> >>><br> >> >>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Jerald Sheets <<a href="mailto:questy@gmail.com">questy@gmail.com</a>><br> >> >>> wrote:<br> >> >>>> On Mar 23, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Charles Shapiro wrote:<br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>>> And YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!<br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>> "Residential Vegetation Management Zone"<br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>> #!/jerald<br> >> >>>> Linux User #183003<br> >> >>>> Ubuntu User #32648<br> >> >>>> Public GPG Key: <a href="http://questy.org/js.asc" target="_blank">http://questy.org/js.asc</a><br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----<br> >> >>>> Version: 3.1<br> >> >>>> GIT/MU d-@ s++(++)>+++:> a+ C++++(+++)$>++ UBLAVHSC++(on)$>++++<br> >> >>>> P++(+++)$>++++ L++(++++)$>+++ !E---(---)>--- W+(++)$>+++ N(+)$>+<br> >> >>>> + !o !K--<br> >> >>>> w(--)>--- O()@> M++(++)$>++ V()>- PS+++()@>-- PE(++)@>+ Y+(+)@>+<br> >> >>>> PGP++(++)$>+++ t+(++)@>+++ 5(+)@>+ X+(++)@>+++ R+(+)@>++ tv-(+)$>++<br> >> >>>> b+++(++)$>++ DI++++(++)>+++ D++(++)@>++ G++(++)@>++ e++(++)$>++<br> >> >>>> h(-)$>-<br> >> >>>> r+++(+++)@>+++ y+(+++)>++++@<br> >> >>>> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------<br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>><br> >> >>>> _______________________________________________<br> >> >>>> Ale mailing list<br> >> >>>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br> >> >>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br> >> >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br> >> >>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br> >> >>>><br> >> >>><br> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br> >> >>> Ale mailing list<br> >> >>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br> >> >>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br> >> >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br> >> >>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br> >> >><br> >> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> >> Ale mailing list<br> >> >> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br> >> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br> >> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br> >> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br> >> >><br> >> >><br> >> ><br> >> > _______________________________________________<br> >> > Ale mailing list<br> >> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br> >> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br> >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br> >> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br> >><br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> Ale mailing list<br> >> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > --<br> > --<br> > James P. Kinney III<br> > I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in chains.<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Ale mailing list<br> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br> ><br> ><br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Ale mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-- <br>James P. Kinney III<br>I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in chains.<br><br><br> _______________________________________________<br>Ale mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale<br>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>