<p>More like poked it with a pointed burning stick dripping with caustic sludge. </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 30, 2011 9:26 AM, "Charles Shapiro" <<a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> Ooh, I seem to have touched a nerve.<br>
> <br>> -- CHS<br>> <br>> <br>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:26 AM, arxaaron <<a href="mailto:arxaaron@gmail.com">arxaaron@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> On 2011/03/29, at 17:11 , Jim Kinney wrote:<br>
>><br>>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Charles Shapiro <<a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>><br>>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>> And yet, without those evil corporations we would not be swimming in<br>
>>> the happy sea of<br>>><br>>><br>>>><br>>>> (toxic waste dumps caused by unregulated production of)<br>>><br>>><br>>>><br>>>> cheap and wonderful hardware which we inhabit. I<br>
>>> bought a 1/2 terabyte drive at Fry's the other day for $50<br>>><br>>><br>>>><br>>>> (that was built by children who are nearly slaves in China).<br>>><br>>><br>>>><br>
>>> Small shops and artisanal craftsmanship cannot produce that kind of<br>>>> machinery at that price<br>>><br>>><br>>>><br>>>> (and theyhave no desire to produce WalMart-level quality).<br>
>><br>>><br>>>><br>>>> Corporations are certainly capable of<br>>>> outrageous behavior, but that's only half the story.<br>>><br>>> (The other half is the rampant greed that drives economic system<br>
>><br>>> to near global collapse)<br>>>><br>>>> -- CHS<br>>><br>>> I have almost zero trust for any process that holds the top level blameless<br>>><br>>> and harmless from their decisions. Corporations are my prime example.<br>
>><br>>> Political leaders are the secondary example.<br>>><br>>> Here's more of the reality. The nicest thing about these videos is that<br>>> the simple, clear, down to earth way that Annie Leonard presents the<br>
>> Truth, it might even be possible for delusional, child killing, drooling,<br>>> Glenn Beck foil hat conspiracy nut, teabagger terrorist, Koch brother<br>>> teahadist puppet hate monger types to understand it (assuming it's<br>
>> possible for them to pull their zombie heads out of their sphincters<br>>> for all of ten minutes):<br>>> <<a href="http://www.youtube.com/storyofstuffproject#p/u/22/9GorqroigqM">http://www.youtube.com/storyofstuffproject#p/u/22/9GorqroigqM</a>><br>
>> Makes me want to take out a billboard ad for all those patricidal<br>>> killers of the American Dream:<br>>> Hey STOOPID! It's the CORPORATIONS that are coproRAPING<br>>> you, and corpoRAPING your economy, and corpoRAPING your<br>
>> country, and corpoRAPING your freedoms, and corpoRAPING your<br>>> children, and, with the aid of YOUR blissful ignorance and<br>>> compliant infantile denial and rabid right wing media puppet<br>>> zombie hate mongering terrorism, they are coproRAPING the<br>
>> future of everyone and everything else on the entire planet, too!<br>>><br>>> peace<br>>> aaron<br>>>><br>>>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> > Yay! Aaron's back!<br>>>> ><br>>>> > Constitution is about PEOPLE not corporations.<br>>>> ><br>>>> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:36 PM, arxaaron <<a href="mailto:arxaaron@gmail.com">arxaaron@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> >><br>>>> >> On 2011/03/24, at 10:11 , Charles Shapiro wrote:<br>>>> >><br>>>> >> > I was merely using Mr. Paine as a hint that copyright laws Need to<br>
>>> >> > Change. "When we are exposed to the same miseries BY a government,<br>>>> >> > which we might expect in a country WITHOUT government..."<br>>>> >> ><br>
>>> >> > When "Intellectual Property" laws become an IMPEDIMENT to innovation,<br>>>> >> > rather than a SPUR, it is time to change the laws. Walt Disney<br>>>> >> > doesn't own my computer. Warner Brothers can't dictate how I use it.<br>
>>> >> > Sony Inc. won't stop me from writing code.<br>>>> >> ><br>>>> >> > -- CHS<br>>>> >> ><br>>>> >><br>>>> >><br>
>>> >> Which speaks to the REAL core of the problem, which is that our<br>>>> >> social democracy, a Positive, Just and Constructive system of<br>>>> >> government that was designed by constitution to establish and<br>
>>> >> protect the freedoms and civil liberties of its citizens, has been<br>>>> >> destroyed by Corporate Welfare State fascism.<br>>>> >><br>>>> >> Since usurping the 14th Amendment laws intended to protect the<br>
>>> >> _human_ rights and civil liberties of freed _human_ slaves in 1896,<br>>>> >> the totalitarian structures of piratizing corporation have corrupted<br>>>> >> every law and every institution of the good government that was<br>
>>> >> designed to protect the rights and liberties of its citizens. The<br>>>> >> corporapist elites and their vicious pursuit of resource theft,<br>>>> >> worker exploitation and monopolies have been a the blood<br>
>>> >> sucking cancer of greed to our nation since its founding.<br>>>> >><br>>>> >> peace<br>>>> >> aaron<br>>>> >><br>>>> >><br>>>> >><br>
>>> >> ><br>>>> >> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>><br>>>> >> > wrote:<br>>>> >> >> Brilliant prose from a brilliant person from a time period when no<br>
>>> >> >> government had ever yet done any measurable good for any portion of<br>>>> >> >> their<br>>>> >> >> governed that approached a majority.<br>>>> >> >> I wish Franklin and Jefferson could have seen humans walking on the<br>
>>> >> >> moon.<br>>>> >> >><br>>>> >> >> On Mar 23, 2011 2:57 PM, "Charles Shapiro"<br>>>> >> >> <<a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> >> >>> For a more sensible response: I am sorry, but I strongly disagree<br>>>> >> >>> with<br>>>> >> >>> Ron's contentions about Intellectual Property.<br>
>>> >> >>><br>>>> >> >>> Intellectual Property is nonsense. If you steal my real property,<br>>>> >> >>> you<br>>>> >> >>> deprive me of the use of it. Steal my bicycle, and I can't use it<br>
>>> >> >>> to<br>>>> >> >>> go down to the store. If you make a copy of my book (or my song, or<br>>>> >> >>> my software...), I can still read (or play, or use) my copy. More<br>
>>> >> >>> to<br>>>> >> >>> the point, I can still SELL my copy. You could (possibly) argue<br>>>> >> >>> that<br>>>> >> >>> publishing your copy of my book may deprive me of some revenues<br>
>>> >> >>> which<br>>>> >> >>> I might otherwise have acquired from selling copies of my book, but<br>>>> >> >>> that money a phantasm. It is not the same as the money I keep in my<br>
>>> >> >>> wallet or my bank account. "Intellectual Property" laws are hacks<br>>>> >> >>> to<br>>>> >> >>> encourage people to write neat stuff. Once they start getting<br>
>>> >> >>> _in_the_way_ of creating stuff, they're obviously a Bad Idea.<br>>>> >> >>> Confusing this putative "Intellectual Property" with real property<br>>>> >> >>> is<br>
>>> >> >>> a sure way to misunderstand every moral and legal issue associated<br>>>> >> >>> with creative work.<br>>>> >> >>><br>>>> >> >>> The Original Ranter maybe said it best:<br>
>>> >> >>><br>>>> >> >>> Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its<br>>>> >> >>> best<br>>>> >> >>> state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable<br>
>>> >> >>> one;<br>>>> >> >>> for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a<br>>>> >> >>> government, which we might expect in a country without government,<br>
>>> >> >>> our<br>>>> >> >>> calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by<br>>>> >> >>> which we suffer! Government, like dress, is the badge of lost<br>
>>> >> >>> innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the<br>>>> >> >>> bowers<br>>>> >> >>> of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform,<br>
>>> >> >>> and<br>>>> >> >>> irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not<br>>>> >> >>> being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his<br>
>>> >> >>> property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this<br>>>> >> >>> he<br>>>> >> >>> is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case<br>
>>> >> >>> advises him out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore,<br>>>> >> >>> security<br>>>> >> >>> being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably<br>
>>> >> >>> follows<br>>>> >> >>> that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us,<br>>>> >> >>> with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all<br>
>>> >> >>> others.<br>>>> >> >>><br>>>> >> >>> (Tom Paine, 1776)<br>>>> >> >>><br>>>> >> >>> -- CHS<br>
>>> >> >>><br>>>> >> >>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Jerald Sheets <<a href="mailto:questy@gmail.com">questy@gmail.com</a>><br>>>> >> >>> wrote:<br>
>>> >> >>>> On Mar 23, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Charles Shapiro wrote:<br>>>> >> >>>><br>>>> >> >>>>> And YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!<br>>>> >> >>>><br>
>>> >> >>>> "Residential Vegetation Management Zone"<br>>>> >> >>>><br>>>> >> >>>><br>>>> >> >>>><br>>>> >> >>>> #!/jerald<br>
>>> >> >>>> Linux User #183003<br>>>> >> >>>> Ubuntu User #32648<br>>>> >> >>>> Public GPG Key: <a href="http://questy.org/js.asc">http://questy.org/js.asc</a><br>
>>> >> >>>><br>>>> >> >>>> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----<br>>>> >> >>>> Version: 3.1<br>>>> >> >>>> GIT/MU d-@ s++(++)>+++:> a+ C++++(+++)$>++ UBLAVHSC++(on)$>++++<br>
>>> >> >>>> P++(+++)$>++++ L++(++++)$>+++ !E---(---)>--- W+(++)$>+++ N(+)$>+<br>>>> >> >>>> + !o !K--<br>>>> >> >>>> w(--)>--- O()@> M++(++)$>++ V()>- PS+++()@>-- PE(++)@>+ Y+(+)@>+<br>
>>> >> >>>> PGP++(++)$>+++ t+(++)@>+++ 5(+)@>+ X+(++)@>+++ R+(+)@>++<br>>>> >> >>>> tv-(+)$>++<br>>>> >> >>>> b+++(++)$>++ DI++++(++)>+++ D++(++)@>++ G++(++)@>++ e++(++)$>++<br>
>>> >> >>>> h(-)$>-<br>>>> >> >>>> r+++(+++)@>+++ y+(+++)>++++@<br>>>> >> >>>> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------<br>>>> >> >>>><br>
>>> >> >>>><br>>>> >> >>>><br>>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> >> >>>> Ale mailing list<br>
>>> >> >>>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>>> >> >>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>>> >> >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>>> >> >>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>>> >> >>>><br>
>>> >> >>><br>>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> >> >>> Ale mailing list<br>>>> >> >>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>>> >> >>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>>> >> >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>>> >> >>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>>> >> >><br>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________<br>>>> >> >> Ale mailing list<br>>>> >> >> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
>>> >> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>>> >> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>>> >> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>>> >> >><br>>>> >> >><br>>>> >> ><br>>>> >> > _______________________________________________<br>>>> >> > Ale mailing list<br>
>>> >> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>>> >> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>>> >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>>> >> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>>> >><br>>>> >> _______________________________________________<br>>>> >> Ale mailing list<br>
>>> >> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>>> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>>> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>>> >> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>> > --<br>>>> > --<br>
>>> > James P. Kinney III<br>>>> > I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in<br>>>> > chains.<br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>>> > Ale mailing list<br>>>> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>>> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>>> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>>> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>>> ><br>>>> ><br>>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Ale mailing list<br>>>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> --<br>>> --<br>
>> James P. Kinney III<br>>> I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in chains.<br>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Ale mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Ale mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>>><br>>><br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> Ale mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br></div>