<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Charles Shapiro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
And yet, without those evil corporations we would not be swimming in<br>
the happy sea of </blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">(toxic waste dumps caused by unregulated production of) </blockquote>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">cheap and wonderful hardware which we inhabit. I<br>
bought a 1/2 terabyte drive at Fry's the other day for $50 </blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">(that was built by children who are nearly slaves in China). </blockquote>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Small shops and artisanal craftsmanship cannot produce that kind of<br>
machinery at that price</blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> (and theyhave no desire to produce WalMart-level quality). </blockquote>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Corporations are certainly capable of<br>
outrageous behavior, but that's only half the story.<br></blockquote><div>(The other half is the rampant greed that drives economic system to near global collapse) <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
-- CHS<br></blockquote><div><br>I have almost zero trust for any process that holds the top level blameless and harmless from their decisions. Corporations are my prime example. Political leaders are the secondary example. <br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Yay! Aaron's back!<br>
><br>
> Constitution is about PEOPLE not corporations.<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:36 PM, arxaaron <<a href="mailto:arxaaron@gmail.com">arxaaron@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On 2011/03/24, at 10:11 , Charles Shapiro wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > I was merely using Mr. Paine as a hint that copyright laws Need to<br>
>> > Change. "When we are exposed to the same miseries BY a government,<br>
>> > which we might expect in a country WITHOUT government..."<br>
>> ><br>
>> > When "Intellectual Property" laws become an IMPEDIMENT to innovation,<br>
>> > rather than a SPUR, it is time to change the laws. Walt Disney<br>
>> > doesn't own my computer. Warner Brothers can't dictate how I use it.<br>
>> > Sony Inc. won't stop me from writing code.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > -- CHS<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Which speaks to the REAL core of the problem, which is that our<br>
>> social democracy, a Positive, Just and Constructive system of<br>
>> government that was designed by constitution to establish and<br>
>> protect the freedoms and civil liberties of its citizens, has been<br>
>> destroyed by Corporate Welfare State fascism.<br>
>><br>
>> Since usurping the 14th Amendment laws intended to protect the<br>
>> _human_ rights and civil liberties of freed _human_ slaves in 1896,<br>
>> the totalitarian structures of piratizing corporation have corrupted<br>
>> every law and every institution of the good government that was<br>
>> designed to protect the rights and liberties of its citizens. The<br>
>> corporapist elites and their vicious pursuit of resource theft,<br>
>> worker exploitation and monopolies have been a the blood<br>
>> sucking cancer of greed to our nation since its founding.<br>
>><br>
>> peace<br>
>> aaron<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Jim Kinney <<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > wrote:<br>
>> >> Brilliant prose from a brilliant person from a time period when no<br>
>> >> government had ever yet done any measurable good for any portion of<br>
>> >> their<br>
>> >> governed that approached a majority.<br>
>> >> I wish Franklin and Jefferson could have seen humans walking on the<br>
>> >> moon.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Mar 23, 2011 2:57 PM, "Charles Shapiro"<br>
>> >> <<a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com">hooterpincher@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>> For a more sensible response: I am sorry, but I strongly disagree<br>
>> >>> with<br>
>> >>> Ron's contentions about Intellectual Property.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Intellectual Property is nonsense. If you steal my real property,<br>
>> >>> you<br>
>> >>> deprive me of the use of it. Steal my bicycle, and I can't use it to<br>
>> >>> go down to the store. If you make a copy of my book (or my song, or<br>
>> >>> my software...), I can still read (or play, or use) my copy. More to<br>
>> >>> the point, I can still SELL my copy. You could (possibly) argue that<br>
>> >>> publishing your copy of my book may deprive me of some revenues<br>
>> >>> which<br>
>> >>> I might otherwise have acquired from selling copies of my book, but<br>
>> >>> that money a phantasm. It is not the same as the money I keep in my<br>
>> >>> wallet or my bank account. "Intellectual Property" laws are hacks to<br>
>> >>> encourage people to write neat stuff. Once they start getting<br>
>> >>> _in_the_way_ of creating stuff, they're obviously a Bad Idea.<br>
>> >>> Confusing this putative "Intellectual Property" with real property<br>
>> >>> is<br>
>> >>> a sure way to misunderstand every moral and legal issue associated<br>
>> >>> with creative work.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> The Original Ranter maybe said it best:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its<br>
>> >>> best<br>
>> >>> state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one;<br>
>> >>> for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a<br>
>> >>> government, which we might expect in a country without government,<br>
>> >>> our<br>
>> >>> calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by<br>
>> >>> which we suffer! Government, like dress, is the badge of lost<br>
>> >>> innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers<br>
>> >>> of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and<br>
>> >>> irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not<br>
>> >>> being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his<br>
>> >>> property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this<br>
>> >>> he<br>
>> >>> is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case<br>
>> >>> advises him out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore,<br>
>> >>> security<br>
>> >>> being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows<br>
>> >>> that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us,<br>
>> >>> with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all<br>
>> >>> others.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> (Tom Paine, 1776)<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> -- CHS<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Jerald Sheets <<a href="mailto:questy@gmail.com">questy@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>> On Mar 23, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Charles Shapiro wrote:<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>>> And YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> "Residential Vegetation Management Zone"<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> #!/jerald<br>
>> >>>> Linux User #183003<br>
>> >>>> Ubuntu User #32648<br>
>> >>>> Public GPG Key: <a href="http://questy.org/js.asc" target="_blank">http://questy.org/js.asc</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----<br>
>> >>>> Version: 3.1<br>
>> >>>> GIT/MU d-@ s++(++)>+++:> a+ C++++(+++)$>++ UBLAVHSC++(on)$>++++<br>
>> >>>> P++(+++)$>++++ L++(++++)$>+++ !E---(---)>--- W+(++)$>+++ N(+)$>+<br>
>> >>>> + !o !K--<br>
>> >>>> w(--)>--- O()@> M++(++)$>++ V()>- PS+++()@>-- PE(++)@>+ Y+(+)@>+<br>
>> >>>> PGP++(++)$>+++ t+(++)@>+++ 5(+)@>+ X+(++)@>+++ R+(+)@>++ tv-(+)$>++<br>
>> >>>> b+++(++)$>++ DI++++(++)>+++ D++(++)@>++ G++(++)@>++ e++(++)$>++<br>
>> >>>> h(-)$>-<br>
>> >>>> r+++(+++)@>+++ y+(+++)>++++@<br>
>> >>>> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> >>><br>
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>> ><br>
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>><br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> --<br>
> James P. Kinney III<br>
> I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in chains.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-- <br>James P. Kinney III<br>I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in chains.<br><br><br>