<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PlaceName"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In fact Oracle started a lawsuit with
Google over Java extensions in Android. In their response Google has stated
this is little more than an attack on open source.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Of course Oracle has made open source
stuff of their own. I’m not ready to say they’re attacking Open Source at a
fundamental level but there is no denying that some of what they’ve done since
buying Sun seems to be eliminating Open Source stuff Sun previously offered as
well as undermining the rest.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ale-bounces@ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Kinney<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 08, 2010
12:02 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Atlanta
Linux Enthusiasts</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ale] best cross
platform development evironment</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>HA! Given M$'s history I
wouldn't count on them following their own contracts much less some nebulous
"agreement". <br>
<br>
Cross-platform devel is best done with open standards not controlled by a
single for-profit entity. As far as I have seen, language choices include C++,
Python, Perl (but some windows lock-in with <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Active</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>);
GUI from WX (supports C++ and python and perl) or cygwin (ugh!). I don't see
Java as a true crossplatform as it requires an Oracle blessing for the local
code bits and GNU Java is not always an option (windows version?) or QT (with
gpl caveats on application - need devel license if output is NOT gpl) which
supports C++, perl, python, and a gaggle of others.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Lightner, Jeff <<a
href="mailto:jlightner@water.com">jlightner@water.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ignoring M$ history which is well documented doesn't change my opinion
that it would be naïve to rely on a "promise" made by them.
There's a reason that large corporations like IBM and Sun felt the need to sue
them despite "legal agreements" M$ signed.<br>
<br>
I pointed out that ECMA 334 is specifically tied to a "patent
agreement" that is at best vague. If you choose to ignore that feel
free to do so but don't pretend it is the same thing as true FOSS.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org">ale-bounces@ale.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org">ale-bounces@ale.org</a>] On Behalf Of James
Sumners<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Sent: Monday, November
08, 2010 10:42 AM<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: Re: [ale] best cross platform development evironment<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at
10:16 AM, Lightner, Jeff <<a href="mailto:jlightner@water.com">jlightner@water.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> To put it simply C# is NOT "free open source software" because
of the restrictions M$ put in the patent agreement.<br>
<br>
Both ECMA 334 and 335 are covered under MS's Open Specification<br>
Promise[1], a legally enforceable[2] contract. Thus, MS cannot sue<br>
anyone who implements 334 and 335 as detailed in the standards.<br>
Therefore, Mono, the base implementation of C# and the .Net libraries,<br>
ARE FOSS.<br>
<br>
You not liking MS does not change that fact.<br>
<br>
> If you think the only ones on the hook would be folks like Novell then you
do NOT know the history of M$. (By the way - It is ironic you used
Novell as your example. They are the only Linux distributor (SuSe) dumb
enough to sign a no-sue agreement with M$ over FOSS.)<br>
<br>
If you write an application using Mono, then you are not IMPLEMENTING<br>
.Net. You are USING an implementation of .Net. Nothing in that patent<br>
letter implies users of an implementation are subject to any action<br>
what-so-ever. Only implementors. Additionally, Novell was not an<br>
example (as indicated by my use of "i.e."[3]). Novell are the ones
who<br>
write, and maintain, Mono -- the implementation of 334 and 335.<br>
<br>
This thread is about cross platform development environments for Linux<br>
_and_ Windows. Java was eliminated from the realm of possibilities<br>
because Oracle claims ownership of Java under threat of litigation,<br>
despite Sun having licensed something with the name "Java" under the<br>
GPL. So, the runner up, like it or not, is C# and .Net. Any other<br>
environment is going to require much more work (making sure the right<br>
libraries are installed, etc.).<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] -- <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Community_Promise"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Community_Promise</a><br>
[2] -- <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promise" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promise</a><br>
[3] -- <a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Use-%22i.e.%22-Versus-%22e.g.%22"
target="_blank">http://www.wikihow.com/Use-%22i.e.%22-Versus-%22e.g.%22</a><br>
<br>
--<br>
James Sumners<br>
<a href="http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/" target="_blank">http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/</a><br>
<br>
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts<br>
pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it<br>
is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become<br>
drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."<br>
<br>
Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)<br>
CH:D 59<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Proud partner. Susan G. Komen for the Cure.<br>
<br>
Please consider our environment before printing this e-mail or attachments.<br>
----------------------------------<br>
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential
information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of
the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the
sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you.<br>
----------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ale mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
-- <br>
James P. Kinney III<br>
I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in chains.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>