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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I resent the comment about Monster.com.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While I’ve gotten jobs because of
people I know I’ve also used job boards (especially Monster.com) to get
some fairly good jobs and have never had an employer that wanted to get rid of
me because I came to them via that route. In fact the last such job I had the
employer wanted to convert me from contract to perm when I told them I was
leaving. I really liked the job too – unfortunately it was far from
family and friends – much like AZ </span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Of course my last Monster.com job was over
4 years ago – I guess its possible things have changed but I wouldn’t
hesitate to post my resume there if I was looking again. (Speaking of which –
does anyone else think the economy is starting to feel as bad as it did in 2001
when the tech bust came?)</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ale-bounces@ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Paul McKibben<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:37
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ale@ale.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ale] question about
hiring developers</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chris,<br>
<br>
I used to be a team lead with significant input into the hiring process (I left
that company and am now an independent consultant). I found it nearly
impossible to find good people. As I'm sure you understand, it took more
than just finding people with the right education and the right skill set: it
involved finding people who KNEW HOW TO THINK, and who could WORK WITH YOUR
TEAM. No job board or body shop is going to help you find that.<br>
<br>
I am convinced that the only way to find good people is to be involved in the
developer community through user groups like ALE, the Atlanta PHP User Group,
and any other groups relevant to the profession and skills you're hiring for,
and GET TO KNOW the people in those groups. Also, talk to other
developers you trust and see if they can recommend anybody. The best
hires I've had are people who I already knew, or at least who my friends
knew. Forget <a href="http://monster.com">monster.com</a> and the other
job boards--they will not help you. By and large, the best and brightest
rarely post their resumes on job boards because they already have jobs they are
happy with, and when they're unhappy, their next job is just a phone call to a
friend away.<br>
<br>
Having to hire somebody in AZ when you live in Atlanta is going to be a real
problem--clearly your strongest network will be here in Atlanta. Maybe
you can convince your management to back off on that requirement.
Otherwise, is relocation a possibility if you find a good person here?
How often are you in AZ? Any chance of getting involved with user groups
there?<br>
<br>
Recommended reading on finding and hiring the best and brightest:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDevelopers.html">http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDevelopers.html</a>
(check out his his other articles, too)<br>
<a href="http://asktheheadhunter.com">http://asktheheadhunter.com</a> (usually
from a job seeker's perspective, but good info for those on the hiring side
too)<br>
<br>
Best of luck, and feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.<br>
<br>
--Paul</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:42 PM, <<a
href="mailto:ale-request@ale.org">ale-request@ale.org</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:40:54 -0400<br>
From: "Atlanta Geek" <<a href="mailto:atlantageek@gmail.com">atlantageek@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ale] question about hiring developers<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ale@ale.org">ale@ale.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a
href="mailto:dd7c97280807151140r6f5fae48qf34362c0a3935540@mail.gmail.com">dd7c97280807151140r6f5fae48qf34362c0a3935540@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
When we were hiring 1.5 years ago it was difficult to find a perl guy<br>
at <$70,000 here in Atlanta even though the work environment was good<br>
back then.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Chris Fowler<br>
<<a href="mailto:cfowler@outpostsentinel.com">cfowler@outpostsentinel.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> You should compare the cost of living in Phoenix Arizona.<br>
><br>
> At the current gas rate here in Atlanta, $60k could be a bit low.<br>
> Especially if the<br>
> job requires driving into the office each an every day. Luckily I<br>
> stopped that madness<br>
> years ago.<br>
><br>
> I thought that if I did ever look for another job that I would do<br>
> something radical and request compensation based on my expenses. If<br>
> they really want me onsite then my compensation will be higher due to<br>
> $4/gal gas. If I'm at home then I can pass those savings on to my<br>
> employer. Maybe when the employer has to pay for gas they are open
to<br>
> ways to save that money.<br>
><br>
> I don't want to upset job lookers here but what you might want to try is<br>
> to post the job<br>
> and not post the salary. See what hits you get and make decisions
based<br>
> on that. If you get now hits then possibly there are no qualified<br>
> people in Phoenix. If you do get hits then you need to tell
management<br>
> that they need to either look for another developer in another city to<br>
> work remote or raise their rate.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Chris Kleeschulte wrote:<br>
>> So I am an IT director for a company based in Phoenix, AZ. Really, I<br>
>> am a computer scientist would agreed to manage a team of 3 developers.<br>
>> I have been in charge of hiring new people for our growing business,<br>
>> but I am really having a hard time finding people. Not just<br>
>> "qualified" people, just people in general.<br>
>><br>
>> I live in Atlanta and work from home, but upper management wants<br>
>> someone on site in AZ. I have advertised on Craig's and with the LUG's<br>
>> in the area. At this point, is it worth my time to go to monster and<br>
>> all the big job sites?<br>
>><br>
>> What are your feelings on how to hire quality people in general? I am<br>
>> a bit unskilled in selecting the right people. I had a pipe dream that<br>
>> offering a job with pay of over 60K would just bring in applicants.<br>
>> This job is all linux all day and programming in PHP, Ruby, Python. I<br>
>> would jump at this job if it were me needing a gig.<br>
>><br>
>> I have also checked what the market rate for this type of job should<br>
>> pay. This is a really rough estimate, but what should a programmer<br>
>> with imperative type programming experience (2-3 years) be paid?
I<br>
>> have friends on the Microsoft side that work as Exchange architects<br>
>> and they make 120K+. Is this high rate just an anomaly, or do people<br>
>> on the Microsoft really make that kind of coin?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Chris Kleeschulte<br>
>><br>
>></span></font></p>
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