Actually doesn't section 3.2 of that very TOS cover this? They even put it in all caps too :)<br><br>Ned<br><br><br>3.2 <u>File Modification/Backup Requirements.</u> The Qualifications of
your computer's operating system, as well as the installation (whether
self-installed or AT&T -installed), use, inspection, maintenance,
repair, or removal of the Equipment and Software, may result in an
inadvertent service outage or reconfiguration of the software on your
computer, or temporary interruption of your telephone service. In
addition, as part of the installation process, system files on your
computer, such as, but not limited to, INI, BAT, SYS, and DLL files,
may be modified or deleted. AT&T does not represent or warrant that
such modifications or deletions will not disrupt the normal operations
of your computer. You acknowledge and agree that you are solely
responsible for backing up all existing computer files by copying them
to another storage medium prior to the installation of your Equipment
and the Software, and prior to any inspection, maintenance, repair, or
removal of your Equipment and the Software. AT&T DOES NOT REPRESENT
OR WARRANT THAT INSTALLATION BY YOU OR A THIRD PARTY CHOSEN BY YOU WILL
ENABLE YOU TO SUCCESSFULLY ACCESS OR USE THE SERVICES, NOR THAT ANY
SUCH INSTALLATION WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE OR MODIFICATIONS TO, OR LOSS
OF, ANY OF YOUR SOFTWARE, HARDWARE, FILES, DATA, OR PERIPHERALS.
AT&T AND OUR EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, CONTRACTORS, AND REPRESENTATIVES
WILL HAVE NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ANY DAMAGES OR SERVICE PROBLEMS
(INCLUDING TELEPHONE SERVICE) RESULTING FROM YOUR, OR A THIRD PARTY'S,
FAILURE TO PROPERLY INSTALL, ACCESS, OR USE THE EQUIPMENT, SOFTWARE, OR
SERVICES.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse <<a href="mailto:jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net">jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Actually have you checked out <a href="http://www.att.net/legal/tos" target="_blank">http://www.att.net/legal/tos</a> cause those<br>
specs you mention are no where within it nor is the explicit mention of<br>
Windows or Mac. Closest I can find is section 3. Equipment & Software<br>
and all it really says is:<br>
<br>
Due to the infinite number of possible combinations of hardware and<br>
software, you are responsible for the compatibility of your system<br>
with the Service. Any equipment that was not provided to you by AT&T<br>
is not the responsibility of AT&T , and AT&T will not provide<br>
support and will not be responsible for ongoing maintenance or<br>
management of such equipment. Any AT&T-provided modem will be either<br>
a new or a fully inspected, tested, and warranted return or<br>
repackaged unit.<br>
<br>
Which I can understand, I provide my own router/access point behind<br>
their DSL modem I'm not asking them to support that router but I am<br>
asking them to support their connectivity which they do provide and thus<br>
should support. Yes I've had their modems fail, I've also replaced my<br>
separately purchased Sangoma S518 ADSL card with their provided<br>
Speedstream to prove a problem was not my modem but the line as the same<br>
problem was occuring. If your call to tech support is network<br>
connectivity reasons, which I know for me is the only time I do ever<br>
call, then nothing in their TOS (so far as I can see) says support can<br>
be withheld because of your operating system.<br>
<<a href="http://www.att.net/legal/tos" target="_blank">http://www.att.net/legal/tos</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">Ned Williams wrote:<br>
> You miss my point.<br>
><br>
> Regardless of what it takes to do a ping..you have their service you<br>
> agreed to their terms of service, that TOS states they only support<br>
> windows...that means you understood at the time of getting the service<br>
> that calling in because your Linux connected machine has a problem is<br>
> a lost cause. The effect of the operating system is not what is up<br>
> for debate, the effect of the contract the customer agrees too, is. Is<br>
> it a wrongly minded contract sure if your a Linux person, but that is<br>
> not of any consequence to AT&T. .If you don't like, don't be their<br>
> customer. That is your greatest method to effect chance upon them.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Ned<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">> <<a href="mailto:jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net">jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net">jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> But again these specs you quote also fall back to the issue of what<br>
> affect the Operating System has on OS-independent network routing<br>
> issues. Those are really specs for software being installed not<br>
> what is<br>
> needed to provide a level of network service connectivity. If they ask<br>
> you to do a ping does it really matter what OS you do it from?<br>
> Same for<br>
> traceroute, opening a web page, etc...<br>
><br>
> Ned Williams wrote:<br>
> > If you have 19 machines on a network, why don't you have a<br>
> switch and<br>
> > a router and not force a linux box to do the job of the<br>
> aforementioned<br>
> > 10 dollar router?<br>
> > Sorry I know there are people out there who insist on demonstrating<br>
> > value in their stll creaking along 486/66 by making it their dsl<br>
> > router/firewall...but I mean rather than get spitting mad on the<br>
> phone<br>
> > with techs who you KNOW are not going to know squat about linux nor<br>
> > are they required too...(a google of "AT&T system requirements"<br>
> first<br>
> > hit spells out what they are required to support)<br>
> ><br>
> > * Intel or equivalent Pentium Pro, II, III, or IV at 133MHz<br>
> or faster<br>
> > * Windows 95/98/ME/XP or Windows NT 4.0/2000 (TCP/IP and<br>
> Ethernet<br>
> > support must be enabled)<br>
> > * RAM -<br>
> > o Windows 95/98/XP - 32 MB<br>
> > o Windows NT - 32 MB<br>
> > * Hard drive with 100 megabytes available<br>
> > * Ethernet Network Interface Card (NIC) or built-in Ethernet<br>
> port<br>
> > supporting 10 Base-T<br>
> > * CD ROM<br>
> > * Microsoft^® TCP/IP stack<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > This means when you, you're gf, your mom,dad uncle or whomever has<br>
> > their service all agreed to these terms when you got the service..<br>
> ><br>
> > don't agree fine, get speak easy, they support Linux and your blood<br>
> > pressure will be lower...but don't expect the AT&T's Chennai<br>
> support<br>
> > center to understand the eccentricities of the latest Debian<br>
> release,<br>
> > when their product list is limited to windows only..<br>
> ><br>
> > and hey if it helps..they don't support Vista either<br>
> ><br>
> > Ned<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net">jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net">jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net">jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net">jeremy.bouse@undergrid.net</a>>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > The other problem with being able to go with any one<br>
> other than the<br>
> > telco is if you're like me, stuck behind a remote DSLAM the<br>
> telco<br>
> > won't<br>
> > provide the resellers with the ability to service you. Every DSL<br>
> > provider claims they can't service my house but I have the top<br>
> > speed DSL<br>
> > from AT&T. Luckily I don't have to call them for support too<br>
> often<br>
> > considering I've got a very non-standard configuration in the<br>
> > house that<br>
> > would drive their script-readers nuts, along with myself<br>
> trying to<br>
> > explain it to them.<br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Ale mailing list<br>
</div></div>> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a>>><br>
> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Ale mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a>><br>
> > <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Ale mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a>><br>
> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Ale mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org">Ale@ale.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target="_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>